Soviet AAA

[kolya1]

Hi,

I've got a quite general question about soviet air defences during WWII...

When reading the german accounts of combats over the Eastern Front, I've always remarked that they spoke of soviet AAA as extremely efficient (although AFAIK the number of claims by soviet AAA was only half or less the claims of fighters...), does anybody knows anything about their numbers, organisation,... ?

AFAIK, the most usual AA guns were 25 mm, 37 mm, 76,2 mm, and 85 mm, even if there were other types in more lmited service (including larger weapons like 90 or 107 mm guns), in addition, there were AA machine-guns, including the famous quadruple 7,62 Maxim, and later in the war the 12.7 DShK heavy MG...

As I understand it, apart from organic AA defences in the ground forces, the anti-aircraft guns were organised in independent divisions, which included both small (25mm and 37mm) and heavy weapons.

Does anybody know how many AA divisions there were in the soviet forces or if these belonged to the PVO (like the air defence guns around soviet-held cities) or were controlled by the ground forces... ?

AFAIK, most of these guns were towed, but does anybody know if there were mobile systems (like truck or track mounted 25mm or 37mm guns...), apart from truck mounted machine-guns ?

[Juha]

Hello
IIRC Soviets made at least a prototype of an AA tank with 37mm AA gun but if there was any production, it was very limited.
USA under lend lease sent many M17 AAA half-tracks with quad 0.5" AAmgs to USSR. M17 was almost identical to US Army's M16 Half-Track 0.50" Multiple Gun Motor Carriage or something like that, US vehicle names were sometimes rather complicated. But anyway more or less the standard armoured half-track with a quad 0.5" AA"turret" in the rear space, where in normal half-track the infantry squad sat.

Juha

[Juha]

Hello
a little bit more info
According to Zaloga & Grandsen USA sent to USSR 1000 M17s and 100 M15A1s, the latter had a open top turret with a 37mm AAAgun and 2 0.5” mgs. Now I have no problem with M15A1s but 1000 M17 was the whole production of that vehicle. US Army used M16 but M17 was based on M5 half-track, which was the main h-t supplied to British Army and the British 21st Army Group used some quad 0.5”, both towed M51s and SP versions, in NE Europe in late 44 onwards. That according to Routledge´s Anti-Aircraft Artillery 1914-55. But the book doesn’t say if the SP versions were M16s or M17s. Logistically M17 would have been better for the British Army but if the acquisition of the SP version was some kind of emergency measurement against low-level LW fighter bombers, and that was my impression of the reason of the British acquisition of quad 0.5”s when I read the book, then it is altogether possible that British got M16s, which was standardised equipment of US Army and based on M3 half-track (almost identical to M5 but from different manufacture and with different engine, IIRC). So in that case the 1000 M17s to USSR is altogether possible.

Also according to Zaloga & Grandsen no Soviet AAtanks saw action during the Great Patriotic War but there were some ZiS-5 lorries converted to the ZiS-42 which mounted a 25mm Model 1940 AA gun on the rear of the chassis. And also there where a small number of YaG-10 heavy lorries modified to carry the 76.2mm Model 1931 AA gun.

HTH
Juha

[kolya1]

Thank you very much, guys,...

BTW, do you know how many of these 25mm mounted on lorries ?

I had difficulties finding the number of 25mm guns (mobile or not) delivered to the red army, whereas it seems something like 22500 37mm automatic guns were delivered...

It would be interresting because it seems small AAA (25 and 37 mm) claimed more than 2/3 of all claims by soviet ground fire...

[Juha]

Sorry no,
there seems to be no more on Soviet SP AA on the Zaloga's & Grandsen's book. No numbers at all on SP AA, only for tanks and SUs.

And the claim that no Soviet AA tank saw action is not from Zaloga & Grandsen book, which only mentioned that a small number of ZSU-37s were included in the total number of SU-76s built but from battlefield.ru pages, which says that 150 ZSU-37 were made in 45 - 46 but none saw action during the Great Patriotic War.

Juha

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Most of German air activity on the Eastern Front was tactical support over or just behind the frontline, usually at low alt.

From what I have read from German pilots' testimonies, it was an usual practice for Soviet units to fire to enemy AC flying low with everything they had, even not designed as an AA weapon, at least from rifles to heavy MGs. If I remember correctly there were several claims during the war made by Soviet soldiers to have shot down an enemy AC with an antitank rifle.