HMS Implacable and its Seafire's, 1945

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

I am looking at HMS Implacable's Seafire's in 1945.

Specificaly 801 and 880 Squadrons.

What I have is that in Dec 44/Jan 45 801 Sqn increased its total to 24 a/c.
I assume that these were all Seafire III's.
Same thing for 880 Sqn, but it only had 12 Seafire L.III's a/c.

Implacable embarked for the Far East in March 45, joining the British Pacific Fleet in May 45.
Question 1 - With 36 Seafire III's ?

It's squadrons were in action over Truk and Japan.
Question 2 - Were there losses and acidents and when were they replaced ?

After V.J Day the squadrons were established at RNAS Schofields/HMS Nabthorpe (near Sydney, Australia) from late August 45.

While at Schofields 801 absorbed 880 ( Disbanded 11 September 45) bringing its total to 48 a/c.
Question 3 - When did 880 increase its total of Seafire's from 12 to 24 a/c ?
Question 4 - What became of all these Seafire III's. Were they taken up by the RAN or RAAF or scrapped ?

801 Squadron re-equiped with 18 Seafire XV's from September 45.
Question 5 - What were the serial numbers of these 18 a/c please ?

Question 6 - How were these "new" Seafires delivered to Australia ?

The surviving Seafire XV a/c were discarded when the ship sailed for the Uk in April 1946.
Question 7 - Were they taken up by the RAN or RAAF or scrapped.

Thank you,
Alex

[BruceMk11]

Hi Alex,

With regard to 801 Squadron's Seafire XVs, one was lost in an accident on the 29/11/45. The pilot, Sub-Lt Leslie John Norton (RANVR), was killed. I thought I'd recorded the a/c serial but can't find it atm.

Cheers,

Bruce

[Alex Smart]

Hello Bruce,
Many thanks for your reply.
If you come accross the serial number I would be obliged . So far I can only come up with nine and his(Norton) would make ten of the 18.

my puzzle is that if 880 had 24 ( Seafire III's) and 801 had 18(Seafire XV's) the total less any losses would only have been 42, but it is recorded that it was 48 aircraft.
but it is recorded that 880 only had 12 Seafire III's which brings the number down to 36 a/c when the Implacable sailed of the Far East.

Hence my search for the serial numbers of theses Implacable aircraft, have not so far looked at the other squadrons on board as they were not Seafire users.

Thanks
Alex

[James A Pratt III]

There are 2 books that might help:
Seafire the Spitfire that went to Sea

The Forgotten Fleet

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

Truk strikes, 14 & 15 June 1945 - Operation "Inmate".

HMS "Implacable" - Rear Admiral E. J. P. Briand RN.

801 Squadron ---- 24 Seafire L.III
880 Squadron ---- 24 Seafire L.III & FR.III
1771 Squadron --- 11 Firefly I
828 Squadron ---- 21 Avenger II

-----------------------------------------------

HMS "Ruler" (spare deck)

1701 Squadron ----1 Walrus (Air-Sea-Rescue Detachment)

See:
Carrier Operations in World War II.
Brown,J. D. (David Hobbs ed.).
Barnsley:Seaforth Publishing,2009.(2nd.rev.ed.)
p.100.

"INMATE" -TRUK: 14 and 15 June, 1945.

After flying exercises off Manus on June 11 and 12, 1945, "Implacable" joined Task Group III.2 - the assault carrier "Ruler", four cruisers and five destroyers as well as herself - for "Operation Inmate".

At first light on June 14, "Implacable' launched a "Ramrod" - an offensive fighter sweep against ground targets - of four Fireflies and 12 Seafires, following this with the first of many division-strength CAPs. The sweep attacked a radar station and the largest airfield, Moen, and it was over the latter that the only Seafire combat casualty of the operation occurred, an 801 Squadron pilot being lost when his aircraft was shot down by flak. 880 Squadron had a number of FRIIIs on strength, and one of these, flown by Lieutenant-Commander Crosley, brought back photographs of the airfields, coastal defences, and military installations, these being used for targeting further strikes.

Seafire L.III and FRIII.

Serial - PP975
Unit - 801 (Squadron).
Period - June 45.
Base - "Implacable"
Remarks - Lost over Truk, June 14, 1945.

See:
The Seafire.
Brown,David. (aka: J.D.Brown)
London:Ian Allan,1973.
pp.120 & 199.

+ 14-6-1945
Ty/Sub-Lt (A) Richard Samuel SCHOLEFIELD RNVR
HMS "Implacable" (No.801 Sqn.FAA.)

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/ca...CHARD%20SAMUEL

Col.

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by Col Bruggy

Hello,

Truk strikes, 14 & 15 June 1945 - Operation "Inmate".

HMS "Implacable" - Rear Admiral E. J. P. Briand RN.

801 Squadron ---- 24 Seafire L.III
880 Squadron ---- 24 Seafire L.III & FR.III
1771 Squadron --- 11 Firefly I
828 Squadron ---- 21 Avenger II

See:
Carrier Operations in World War II.
Brown,J. D. (David Hobbs ed.).
Barnsley:Seaforth Publishing,2009.(2nd.rev.ed.)
p.100.

"INMATE" -TRUK: 14 and 15 June, 1945.

After flying exercises off Manus on June 11 and 12, 1945, "Implacable" joined Task Group III.2 - the assault carrier "Ruler", four cruisers and five destroyers as well as herself - for "Operation Inmate".

At first light on June 14, "Implacable' launched a "Ramrod" - an offensive fighter sweep against ground targets - of four Fireflies and 12 Seafires, following this with the first of many division-strength CAPs. The sweep attacked a radar station and the largest airfield, Moen, and it was over the latter that the only Seafire combat casualty of the operation occurred, an 801 Squadron pilot being lost when his aircraft was shot down by flak. 880 Squadron had a number of FRIIIs on strength, and one of these, flown by Lieutenant-Commander Crosley, brought back photographs of the airfields, coastal defences, and military installations, these being used for targeting further strikes.

Seafire L.III and FRIII.

Serial - PP975
Unit - 801 (Squadron).
Period - June 45.
Base - "Implacable"
Remarks - Lost over Truk, June 14, 1945.

See:
The Seafire.
Brown,David. (aka: J.D.Brown)
London:Ian Allan,1973.
pp.120 & 199.

+ 14-6-1945
Ty/Sub-Lt (A) Richard Samuel SCHOLEFIELD RNVR
HMS "Implacable" (No.801 Sqn.FAA.)

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/ca...CHARD%20SAMUEL

Col.

Col., I will confess ignorance for late war RN operations but, why in the world would they risk valuable aircraft and pilots against Truk when it was dead by this date; a true backwater? Was it a "training mission"? Seems they would have been more valuable off Formosa or Japan. After all, the war was a month away from ending.

[Col Bruggy]

John,

The late David Brown had this to say on the rationale behind the attack on Truk:

"Implacable's Air Group was well-trained and keyed up for operations, but the staff of 1st ACS wanted the ship to carry out one "training strike" prior to Task Force deployment, to put the edge of recent combat on the ship's efficiency. The target selected was Truk, once the keystone of Japanese naval expansion and defence of the South Pacific, but now by-passed and reduced to starving impotence by the US Navy's strategic policy of neutralising the perimeter strongholds. The island within the atoll had been subjected to a series of devastating carrier strikes from mid-February 1944 and few reinforcements reached the air or naval garrisons on Truk after the Marianas and Palau island groups were captured in June and September 1944."

See:
The Seafire.
Brown,David.
London:Ian Allan,1973.
p.120.

Col.

[Frank Olynyk]

John,

USN carriers with a brand new Air Group aboard typically hit Wake Island for their first combat mission(s). Essex hit Wake Island in May 1944 when CVG-15 came aboard at the beginning of May. I believe this practice continued to the end of the war.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Allan125]

John - whilst we now know that "the war was a month away from ending" (well, two months really) they certainly didn't at the time, so my assumption is that it was a "training mission" to rub off any rough edges before taking part in more intensive operations.

Alex - Have you tried asking your questions with the staff at the FAA Museum?

regards

Allan

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Thank you all for your replies,

It is only the serial numbers of 801 Sqdn's first 18 Seafire XV's that I seek.
The answer to question 1 is 48 aircraft, not 36.
The answer to Question 3 is that 880 Sqdn increased its number of Seafire F.III's to 24 in January 45 as did 801 . So from then on there would have been 48 a/c.

To clear up my oversight, It now comes to me that I overlooked the fact that 801 Sqdn received the 18 Spitfires in/from September 45 see my question 5.

When Implacable returned to British waters I assume that it brought back the remaining XV's along with all the other Squadrons aircraft ?

Col, re PR228, all "FAA aircraft 1939-1945" has is - AID check 24.11.44;Bankstown, returned from drop tank trials hit hill Barnawatha, Cat ZZ 8.8.45 (Pilot OK ).
Also
re PP949, "FAA aircrat 1939-1945" has - 801 Sqn Stbd u/c collapsed, into barrier, ditched, Cat ZZ 6.6.45 (S/L MH Payne OK).
re PP975, "FAA aircrat 1939-1945" has - 801 Sqn Implacable FTR strafing attack Truk island, Cat ZZ 14.6.45 ( S/L MH Payne Killed).http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/ca...ERVYN%20HAROLD

However "Naval History .net" has Payne as MPK 24/6/45 http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1945-06JUN.htm ???
"FAA Aircraft 1939-1945" has NN613 880 Sqn struck rounddown, crashed Implacable Cat ZZ 14.6.45 (Lt. IKL Banyard OK).
And
PR124 - 880 Sqn Floated into barrier 14.6.45 (S/L DM Gunson of 880 Sqn).
PR126 - Practice DB exercise, lost one wing pulling out of steep dive, hit sea, caught fire, Cat ZZ 29.6.45 (S/L FA Dane killed) BUT 880 Sqn Implacable, heavy landing, floated into barrier 17.7.45 (S/L JE Letham).

So not these a/c for Scholfield."Naval History.net" has him as serving with 828 Sqn.

"FAA aircraft 1939-1945" has Avenger II serial JZ439 828 Sqn Implacable loss of power shortly after TO for shipping strike, ditched, Cat ZZ 14.6.45 (S/l RS Scholefield killed; S/L L Kalinauckas & LA RE Dollimore OK).

I could only find two (PP949 & PP975) losses for 801 in June 45 and possibly three ( NN613, PR124 & possibly PR126 )for 880.

Of interest, What became of all the surviving Seafire III's of 801 and 880 Were they left in Australia ?

Alex