JG 301 on 17 December 1944

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

on 17 December 1944 JG 300 was employed against an incursion of 15th USAAF four engined bombers aiming at the hydrogenation plants in Upper Silesia, Blechhammer, Odertal and Heydebreck.

JG 301 was also in action and reported claims and losses against a B-24 formation and its fighter escort of P-51s and P-38s in the Göttingen / Hannover area - but what was that ?

Can anybody enlighten me as to the identity of the formations JG 301 had been battling with over Lower Saxony ? Were they a stray part of the 15th USAAF formations or what ? As far as I can see neither the 8th USAAF nor the RAF flew any attacks with their four engined bombers over Germany on that day. So ?

As usual, any substantiated help would be gratefully appreciated.

KR

Jochen Prien

[Nick Beale]

Hallo Jochen,

SUNDAY, 17 DECEMBER 1944
STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
550+ B-17s and B-24s bomb oil refineries at Blechhammer N and S and Odertal,
Germany, and Moravska-Ostrava, Czechoslovakia; marshalling yards at Gross
Strehlitz, Germany, and Villach, Saak, Salzburg, and Wels, Austria. P-38s and
P-51s escort the bombers, fly reconnaissance, strafe the railroad running from
Rosenheim, Germany into Austria, and escort photo reconnaissance operations;
enemy fighters appear in force for the first time since Aug 44; the AAF claims
55 air victories.

Source: http://www.milhist.net/usaaf/mto44b.html

[Frank Olynyk]

Jochen,
I can break down the targets and groups as follows, with regard to the intended targets:

Blechhammer North Oil Refinery: 2nd, 97th, 99th, 301st, 483rd BGs, all B-17s

Blechhammer South Oil Refinery: 460th, 464th, 465th, 485th BGs, all B-24s

Gross Strehilitz Marshalling Yard: 454th BG, B-24s

Odertal (Synthetic) Oil Plant/Refinery: 451st, 454th, 455th, 456th, 459th, 461st, 484th BGs, all B-24s

Salzburg Marshalling Yard: 98th, 376th BGs, all B-24s

Wels Marshalling Yard: 449th, 450th BGs, all B-24s

I have not as yet attempted to capture the mission reports for 15th AF, since that is several years away in A History of the Mediterranean Air War. Best source at this point for additional information is Kevin A Mahoney: Fifteenth Air Force Against the Axis, Scarecrow Press, 2013, xx+485 pages. It gives total losses by group, but no times (take-off, over target, or landing). It has some information on the fighter escorts.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Jochen Prien]

Nick, Frank,

many thanks for your quick responses which unfortunately only underline the problem - none of the targets mentioned in your posts lies anywhere near Lower Saxony. And why would a 15th USAAF formation venture that far North ?

So, any more clues ?

Best

Jochen

[Frank Olynyk]

Jochen,
As far as I can tell, 15th AF never bombed any of the major cities in Lower Saxony. The Wikipedia article on Lower Saxony lists the major cities of Lower Saxony, and none of them appear in the target index in Mahoney’s book. Göttingen is located approximately at 52° N, 9° E. 15th AF MACRs for this date give the Last Seen locations as between 46°N and 50°N, and 16°E and 18°E. Last Seen Times are from roughly 1200 to 1300, with later times being further south.

15th AF fighter claims go from 1145 to 1230, from 48°N to 50°N and 17°E to 19°E, by both P-38s and P-51s. Actual locations given are Blechhammer, Biata, Ratibor/Glewitz, Mahrisch-Ostrau, and Radosovce.

What are the times for the JG 301 claims? Do they match up with any of the above times? Are any of the JG 301 claims identifiable by aircraft serial?

The fact that JG 301 is claiming combats with P-38s and P-51s means that they have to be in combat with 15th AF, since 8th AF was not using P-38s by this time, and the RAF never did.

8th Fighter Command made no claims this date. All ETO claims are by 9th AF units, or 1st PTAF.

While American air crews were notorious for misidentifying their location over Europe/Germany, I find it hard to believe that German air crew would do the same.

So the problem is that if JG 301 is in combat with P-38s they must have been fighting 15th AF, but 15th AF never flew into Lower Saxony. It almost feels like you might be facing another 4./JG 27 situation. Or real bad German navigation.

Enjoy! (if you can)

Frank.

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

just a second thought - if anybody has access to the complete M.A.C.R.s they might contain information regarding losses sustained in the area where JG 301 was engaged, i.e. around Hannover / Göttingen.

KR

Jochen Prien

[Kutscha]

Can rule out USAAF units that went to Odertal

Target: Odertal Oil Refinery, Germany
461st Bombardment Group (H) mission map
http://www.461st.org/Missions/images/Map_A_441217.jpg

http://www.461st.org/Missions/December1944.htm

[RT]

Apart Ltn Tauschner, is there any other losses sustained that day by JG 301 ??

Rémi

[Nick Beale]

I've had a look at MACRs that day for B-24, B-17, P-38 and P-51.

For the bombers I just checked examples from Groups that Frank didn't mention: 481st and 308th BG. The 481st B-24s went to Obertal, the 308th B-17s were in China.

P-38s: 14th FG went to Obertal; the two I looked at from 370th and 474th lost aircraft over Simmerath (in air combat) and Bitburg (aircraft missing).

P-51s: 51st FG, China; 52nd, Blechhammer; 325th, Blechhammer.

[Jochen Prien]

Frank and Nick,

thanks once more for your Support, and of course to Kutscha and Rémi. The whole thing remains a mystery.

Best

Jochen