Time difference between axis and allied fighters?

[SCohen]

I am researching an allied pilot in Egypt November 1942 who took off around 0520 for a strafing mission far behind axis lines . German Claims, provided by “The history of the Mediterranean Air War” has three allied aircraft shot down at 0535/0536. I know this pilot flew a lengthy mission, hit the target and was on his way back before he was shot down, far more than he could have done in 15 minutes.

The question I have is whether axis and allied forces in North Africa were following different standardized time and what was that time difference? A bit odd, I know, but if any group knows it would be here! If there are any sources that discuss this I would be interested in consulting them.

[Jim P.]

See attached map - note that the UK is a different time zone than continental Europe. My experience has been that those times are reflected in a lot of the literature, i.e. times reported in Allied sources are UK time versus continental time in German sources.

[Russell]

Hi All

Time zones get complicated, obviously as you go from east to west you go from earlier to later. One problem is where the time zone boundaries are. In 1943/44 the RAF used at least three zones a, b and c running east west along the Med. They were in one hour differences. In late 1944, a Spitfire Wing moving from France to Italy forgot to allow for the different times of sunset as they moved eastwards from France to Italy and timed their arrival for half an hour before sunset. Unfortunately they arrived half an hour after sunset at an airfield with no lighting an error which killed one pilot, severely injured two more, killed one or two ground crew destroyed three aircraft and a couple of trucks, all because of a basic mistake!.
The issue for us looking back is knowing where the zone boundaries were, one between a and b was near Benghazi.

The other issue is what times are used in the records. Ultra is GMT, American units vary between GMT and a Mediterranean time, which can be a two hour difference. On one occasion we came across for July 43 a bomb group reports on a raid had the Group HQ report, and two of the squadron reports using GMT, while the third squadron used local time! We are tending to use whatever time that we have from the source, and not trying to convert it from Axis time to Allied time, leaving the reader having the fun to try and work out the issue you raise. A question for example, to which I don't have a ready answer, is what time did the Germans use over the Aegean and south east Europe, as distinct from Italy as distinct from Southern France and where were the boundaries? I suspect if they were different times, as Jim's map indicates they probably reflect the current boundaries. Incidentally for the Desert War, the RAF was east of the German Air Force for the only time in WWII, so RAF time was earlier than German time, except when they were the same when daylight saving was used, and possible behind if the Germans weren't on summer time and the RAF were on double summer time. If you search this site there have been valiant and helpful attempts to address this issue

Do hope you enjoy MAW book(s), as we had and are having fun doing them and are pressing on with Volume 5.

Regards

Russell

[Nick Beale]

Just to complicate the issue a little more ... Ultra messages sent from the Admiralty (messages with serials beginning ZTP) aren’t GMT as far as I can tell. I think they use whatever the local time was in London when they were sent.