New Pics of Mölders or simply copy?

[Rolfeb]

Hi All,

I have received an photo album which shows many original pic's of WWII. Pics were taken by a soldier himself who owned a camera during entire war. There are a few pics of German and Russian airplanes including a few of Mölders Messerschmitt with the title: Mölders in St. Omer. I know for sure the the soldier war based in St. Omer and therefore the question.
I'm curious if the attached pic is a original one or a copy?
Any idea?
Thanks a lot in advance
Rolf

[Chris Goss]

I have 3 others which are similar but not the same

[rof120]

If something is printed on the back of the pictures it could give a clue on paper from the right period, for example Agfa Brovira (a brand for photo paper). Of course they could make many prints with the same negative but each print can be considered genuine (not a copy) if it was made then, most probably 1941.

If I counted the victory bars correctly there are 65 of them. Kurt Braatz' big book "Werner Mölders - Die Biographie" (400 pages) was published 2008 by NeunundzwanzigSechs Verlag (TwentynineSix Publishing Cy.), in German. On pages 380-383 there is a complete list of Mölders' 101 officially confirmed victories (plus the 14 he won in Spain) with a few details. N° 64: Hurricane on 16.4.1941 over S. England (Dungeness). N° 65: Spitfire over N. France, same date. N° 66: Hurricane on 4 May 1941 East of Deal. So we have a fairly accurate idea of the date on which this photograph was shot.

On page 379 of this book we can see that W. Mölders was stationed at MARDYCK in N. France during this period.

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by rof120

If something is printed on the back of the pictures it could give a clue on paper from the right period, for example Agfa Brovira (a brand for photo paper). Of course they could make many prints with the same negative but each print can be considered genuine (not a copy) if it was made then, most probably 1941.

If I counted the victory bars correctly there are 65 of them. Kurt Braatz' big book "Werner Mölders - Die Biographie" (400 pages) was published 2008 by NeunundzwanzigSechs Verlag (TwentynineSix Publishing Cy.), in German. On pages 380-383 there is a complete list of Mölders' 101 officially confirmed victories (plus the 14 he won in Spain) with a few details. N° 64: Hurricane on 16.4.1941 over S. England (Dungeness). N° 65: Spitfire over N. France, same date. N° 66: Hurricane on 4 May 1941 East of Deal. So we have a fairly accurate idea of the date on which this photograph was shot.

On page 379 of this book we can see that W. Mölders was stationed at MARDYCK in N. France during this period.

Hi rof120,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I cannot have a look to the backside as all pics are clued in the album. The heade of the page with the pics are titled with „Mölders Flugzeug“ and „In St. Omer“
Not sure if this helps
Thanks again
Rolf

[Franek Grabowski]

Hi Rolf
I think that you have asked the question in the wrong way. I think that you mean if the photo is unknown, ie. originating from the photographer, or a well known photo eg. by PK.

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

I have 3 others which are similar but not the same

Thanks Chris

[ouidjat]

Hello Rolf,
As for me this is a new photo. original, yes. A copy? possible one of many prints ... But still original.

If the size is around 6x8 cm you are a lucky man !
Place is Mardyck, indeed, May 1940. EDITED May 1941 !!!!!!!
Cheers,
Franck.

[Chris Goss]

An F at Mardyck in May 1940? Very similar to this

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

An F at Mardyck in May 1940? Very similar to this

Absolutely, that's the one Chris.

[rof120]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

An F at Mardyck in May 1940? Very similar to this

Of course it can't be 1940, as the two preceding posts confirm. I think Chris just had a typo for he is aware of these things.

Why not? Because Mölders' last victory in 1940 (a Hurricane, no "Spitfire-snobbery") was won on December 1 and was his 55th, 10 victories short of what we can see on the largest picture. He won his next one on February 10, 1941 (a Hurricane too). Data from Kurt Braatz' book I already mentioned, page 381.

"Usual disclaimer"
PS: and of course no Me 109 Fs existed in front-line units in May 1940 - the first ones were deployed at the end of that year.