Identification: Fw 190 shot down at Detroit, France

[SOkland]

Hello all,

This might be a long shot but I figured this was the best forum to ask. On 22 October 1943 a Norwegian Spitfire IX pilot (J.Helland, 332 sqd, North Wield) shot down a Fw 190 above Dètroit, France. Anyone able to confirm this and help me identify the unfortunate German pilot? Thanks a lot for your help.

Best regards
SOkland

[Chris Goss]

Another location is near Albert but the trouble is claims at the same time and location were five Fw 190s claimed destroyed, one probably destroyed and three damaged. German units involved were I./JG 3, II and III./JG 2 and II./JG 26. 9./JG 2 lost a Fw 190 in combat with three more damaged. Another case of over optimism?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Checking Cato Guhnfeldt and his Spitfire Saga Vol 4 he says basically what Chris says, the place mentioned by the two Norwegian squadrons involved was over or near Albert.

Sgt Johannes Helland was flying MA422 AH-W during the mission.

Claims were made by:
Major Arne Austeen 331Sq: 2 Fw 190 destroyed
Ltn Björn Björnstad 331Sq: 1 Me 109 destroyed
Sgt Paul Coucheron 331Sq: 1 Fw 190 probably destroyed
Sgt Johannes Helland 332Sq: 1 Fw 190 destroyed
Major Kaj Birksted Wing Commander: 1 Fw 190 destroyed

Adding to that John Foreman has also found a claim by:
Capt Svein Heglund 331Sq: 1 Fw 190 damaged
Heglund was on that mission but Guhnfeldt has not located any such claim from the Norwegian.

The other three damaged aircraft mentioned by Chris are most likely those claimed some 10 minutes later over Arras by 129 Sq

Guhnfeldt states that the unit the Norwegians encountered was JG 2 but they in turn gave all their losses in the Arras area.

Cheers
Stig

[Frank Olynyk]

Stig,

Heglund's claim can be found at FC3 11Nov; CR: Air 50/129-91 according to my database.

Does Spitfire Saga give Coucheron's full name? I have him as Paul P M Coucheron, as does Shores & Thomas' 2nd TAF, but I suspect the initial P is a duplicate of Paul.

And, while we are talking Norwegian, is there a source for the service numbers of the aircrew in 333 (Nor) Squadron? It has about 20 claims, but I have no service numbers for them.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks for that Frank

Coucheron's full name was Paul Peter Montagne, so initials PPM is quite correct.

Sorry, but I have no such things as service numbers for any pilots.

Cheers
Stig

[RT]

A question, what is approx. the proportion of foreign pilots at that time in the fighter leg of the RAF ??
Rémi

[JKStenwig]

I may help with the servicenumbers for most of 333 sqn personell. You may contact me by e-mail: stenwigXonlineXno (exchange the X with the usual)

JohnKS

[Franek Grabowski]

Combat reports available here suggest, that a few of the pilots attacked one and the same Fw 190, pilot of which baled out.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7467303

[Flupke]

Hello
Most probably Following Erik Mombeek it's the Oblt Kässmeyer Erich (WND)68420/73 9./JG 2 WNr-0538 Baled out Following combat at 10:05 nearby Humbercourt
Regards
Phil

[Franek Grabowski]

So it looks spot on. Any other aircraft lost/damaged by the unit?