Allied claims 08/02/1945

[focusfocus]

Good Evening

Exept GC 2/7 (French),wich units made claims in the region of Freiburg/Offenburg/Haslach?
Michel

[Nick Beale]

According to Aéro Journal No. 24 (an article by the late Chris Ehrengardt) two pilots of GC 2/7, Cne. Motte (known as "Rémy") and Cne. Gauthier, claimed two Bf 109 near Freiburg.

The text of the article gives the date as the 8th but the table of victories says the 9th.

[MW Giles]

1Lt D O Scherer of 366FS, 358FG claimed 2 x Me109 at 12:55 30 km E of Offenburg
2Lt A Gilbert, Capt T M Hergert and Major L L Wilson, also of the 366th are credited with victories, but I cannot tell whether they were in the same engagement as Scherer

Regards

Martin

[KM1957]

The claims were all in the same combat, gained on mission A.O. 19 flown from 1130 hours to 1334 hours. Approximately thirty Me 109's (25 G's and 5 E's) and two Me 262's all with belly tanks, which they jettisoned, and painted light blue with black spinners, followed the squadron from 30 miles east of Offenburg where the squadron broke into them at 11,000 feet at 1255 hours. The American pilots reported the enemy planes were not aggressive but the pilots showed considerable skill in aerial acrobatics although no special evasive tactics were used. This is from the mission report for the 366th. Kent

[focusfocus]

Thank you

Particularly underestimated claims!...10 Bf.109 G/K lost from III/IV JG/53.

Regarding GC 2/7
It's indeed the 08/02/45 and not the 09/02 "citation to the order of the Army of 02/06/45 (G.Gauthier)

08/02/45=Bf.109 (wrongly) shared with Roger MOTTE ,"war name" Maurice Remy:this one fired no bullets!(one of the many stangeness of the French approuval system!!

08/02/45=Bf.109 Probable (also shared with R.Motte),not mentioned by C.Ehrengardt...underestimated claim comparing with JG53 losses.

Best Regards
Michel

[Laurent Rizzotti]

According to the book "Brennendes Land" by Fred Trendle, GC II/7 fought III./JG 53 that lost two Bf 109s, both pilots baling out. And 336th FS, 358th FG fought IV./JG 53 that lost 5 Bf 109s (1 KIA, 2 WIA, 2 baled out unhurt). Book gives location and WNr for each and pilot name for 4.

By the way in my digital files of GenAbt 6 Luftwaffe losses from 10 Feb to 1 April 1945,I could only find one of the above losses, Bf 109 K-4 332987 (pilot bailed out unhurt), reported on 28 Feb. I may have missed the other, but Michel can you tell me what is your source for the number of 10 Bf 109s lost that day ?

[focusfocus]

Bonjour Laurent

The source of JG53 losses,is the book of J.Prien (Pik-As teil 3)

III/JG 53

Bf.109 K-4 332 534 Gef.Ludwig Dörrer "luftkampf "shot down near Haslach (10./JG53)

Bf.109 G-14 464 328 "Luftkampf" shot down near Steinach

Bf.109 G-14 462 610 "Luftkampf" crash landing near Spöck

Bf.109 G-14 462 810 "Luftkampf" near Hoffenburg

Bf.109 G-14AS 784 021 "Luftkampf" shot down Baden-Baden/Freudenstadt (15./JG53)

IV/JG 53

Bf.109 G-14 464 075 "Luftkampf" shot down near Achern

Bf.109 K-4 332 429 "Luftkampf" crash landing Freudenstadt

Bf.109 K-4 332 789 "Luftkampf" shot down Horniisgrinde

Bf.109 G-14 464 045 "Feindbeschuss" shot down near Haslach

Bf.109 K-4 332 987 "Luftkampf "

Best Regards
Michel

[keith A]

Gauthier claims his victories near Freiburg and Waldkirch which definitely seems to indicate he encountered III/JG53. His confirmed victory was almost certainly the Bf.109 K-4 332 534 Gef.Ludwig Dörrer "luftkampf "shot down near Haslach (10./JG53) and Bf.109 G-14 464 045 "Feindbeschuss" shot down near Haslach. Haslach is 20m from Freiburg-im-Breisgau and even less from Waldkirch.

What would confirm it would be if JG53 were attacking the B-26 raid that GC2/7 were escorting.

What was the structure of JG53? Surely 10 and 15 staffel were in different gruppe? 10 staffel in III/JG53 and 15 staffel in IV/JG53?

regards

Keith

[keith A]

On a similar note on 14 April 1945 Gauthier made one claim. His section was composed of Lt Amarger, Aspirant Eugene Criqui, and Sergents Denis Roussel and Plutaret. The Bf109 fell in flames after attacks by Gauthier caused it to emit grey smoke and was conclusive. His wingmen Plataret and Roussel attacked it as it fell, as did Criqui.

Does anyone have a Luftwaffe loss to confirm?

regards

Keith

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by keith A

Gauthier claims his victories near Freiburg and Waldkirch which definitely seems to indicate he encountered III/JG53. His confirmed victory was almost certainly the Bf.109 K-4 332 534 Gef.Ludwig Dörrer "luftkampf "shot down near Haslach (10./JG53) and Bf.109 G-14 464 045 "Feindbeschuss" shot down near Haslach. Haslach is 20m from Freiburg-im-Breisgau and even less from Waldkirch.

What would confirm it would be if JG53 were attacking the B-26 raid that GC2/7 were escorting.

What was the structure of JG53? Surely 10 and 15 staffel were in different gruppe? 10 staffel in III/JG53 and 15 staffel in IV/JG53?

regards

Keith

Yes, at this date, Jagdgruppen were supposed to have four Staffeln each (not all did, but JG 53 did) so Staffeln 9-12 were in III Gruppe and 13-16 in IV Gruppe.