355 FG engagements w/experten

[drgondog]

I think I have narrowed down most of the units that enagaged w/355th but wish to solicit expert opinions from this Board on some more question marks?

I have dates and units (probably correct) of different pilots that went down on dates but the Unit raises questions - what I would very much like is info re: where and what type fighter were these pilots KIA/WIA? Thanks to all of you in advance -

1943
10/4 Hptm Rudolph Sigmund NJG3
12/1 Hptm Helmut Hoppe Jg26
12/1 Fw Alfred Miksch JG1
12/1 Oblt Herbert Schramm JG27

1944
1/29 Oblt Willi Kientsch JG27
1/29 Ltn Gunther Haase JG54 (III/JG54?)

2/11 Maj Franz Beyer JG3

2/20 Hptm Helmut Mertens JG3
2/20 Uffr Gerhard Raimann JG54 (III/JG54?)

3/6 Oblt Gerhard Loos JG54 (III/JG54?)

3/8 Ltn Hans Frese JG3
3/8 Ofw Rudolph Ehrenberger JG27
3/8 Hptm Hermann Segatz JG1

3/18 Ltn Rudolph Graph JG54 (III/JG54?)
3/18 Fw Karl-Otto Harloff JG3

3/29 Hptm Detlef Rohwer JG1

4/08 Ltn Josef Zwiernemann JG11
4/08 FhjOfw Emil Babenz

4/11 Fw Waldemar Eyrich JG3

4/19 Oblt Otto Webling JG3

4/24 Ltn Franz Schwaiger JG3
4/24 Hptm Emil Omert JG77
4/24 Fw Georg Schanz JG27 (Me109, Munich area?)

4/29 Ofw Rolf Stienke JG3

7/28 Gefr Walter Weinzierl JG302
7/28 Kurt Roisch JG3 (WIA where?)
7/28 Oblt Ernst-Erich Hirschfeld JG300 (Fw 190? sw Merseburg?)

8/03 uffr karl Heinz Schmidt JG3

8/06 Fw Herbert Dehrmann JG3

8/16 Oblt Ekkehard Tichy JG3
8/16 Ltn Hubert Buschman JG3 (Me109, Hildescheim area?)

1945
1/14 Ltn Carl Resch JG54 (Fw190? Damme?)
1/14 Fw Otto Ehrhardt JG3
1/14 Ltn Josef Kunz JG4
1/14 Oblt Johann Aisleitner JG26

Thanks everyone for any insight

Regards,

Bill Marshall

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Bill

Here is a list of several RK winners that you mentioned in your list. The basis for this information is Obermaier's Die Ritterkreuzträger der Luftwaffe 1939-1945. I hope that you find it useful and any comments or corrections will be greatly appreciated.

Schramm: 1 December 1943 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 410 291) over Stembert in Belgium.
Aisleitner: 14 January 1944 in Fw 190 A-6 "White 9" (W.Nr. 530 734) near Montdidier-Ercheu by P-47 fighters of the 4th Fighter Group, USAAF.
Kientsch: 29 January 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 "Yellow 3" (W.Nr. 440 073) near Würen in Belgium.
Beyer: 11 February 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 411 036) by Spitfire fighters over Erezee in The Netherlands.
Loos: 6 March 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 411 922) near Rheinsehlen by 1st Lieutenant John Carder of the 357th Fighter Group, USAAF.
Rohwer: 29 March 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 "Black <<" (W.Nr. 440 295) near Mettingen.
Zwernemann: 8 April 1944 in Fw 190 A-7 "White 11" (W.Nr. 431 164) by USAAF P-51 fighters.
Babenz: 8 April 1944 in Fw 190 A-6 "Black 1" (W.Nr. 470 046) near Bentheim by P-47 fighters of the 361st Fighter Group, USAAF.
Wessling: 19 April 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 412 052) near Eschwege.
Schwaiger: 24 April 1944 in Bf 109 G-5 "White 5" (W.Nr. 110 186) near Rain am Lech by P-51 fighters.
Omert: 24 April 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 "Yellow 1" (W.Nr. 160 826) over Finta Mare in Romania.
Tichy: 16 August 1944 in Fw 190 A-8/R8 "White 1" (W.Nr. 732 029) due to collision with a B-17 four-engined bomber of the 91st Bombardment Group, USAAF.

Horrido!

Leo

[drgondog]

Leo - many, many thanks. It has been hard to find location and time data for many experten encounters and your information is very useful.

I need to do some research on exact location for Wuren, Rain am Lech and Metttingen

If Rain am Lech is close to Munich Swaiger almost certainly went down in big 355/B-17/JG3 battle between 1330 and 1410. The 355th engaged with both JG3 (for sure) and probably JG27

Wessling on the 19th matches up with a victim of Capt Robert Woody, who would later score 4.5-2-1 on the 24th. Woody's 109 score on 19 April was west of Mulhausen, ssw of Nordhausen which would put the fight just ENE of Eshwege ~1015. The 355th lost a pilot (MacConkey) to Fw Florian of JG3 just south of Gottingen in same general fight. Two other claims were SW of Brunswick, one an Fw 190 and the other a 109.

Thank you again Leo.

Regards,

Bill

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Bill

Many thanks for your kind reply. I am glad to have been able to help a little. Here are some alternative locations that perhaps can help you narrow your search.

Schwaiger: Rain am Lech/Donau-Ries/Bayern
Kientsch: Würrich/Hunsrück/Rheinland
Wessling: Eschwege/Hessen
Schramm: Eupen in Belgium

I will next try to find the III./JG 54 pilots mentioned.

Horrido!

Leo

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Bill

Here is what I found based on Rosipal's JG 54 loss list. I must admit that I was unable to find anything on a Lt. Carl Resch but on 14 January 1945 there was an aircraft lost with 12./JG 54. Might that be his? Any comments or corrections are welcomed.

Raimann: on 20 February 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 "White 3" (W.Nr. 411 426) at Duingen southwest of Hannover by P-47 fighters
Grath: on 18 March 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 411 753) south of Ssypkino (Russia)
Haase: on 29 January 1944 with I./JG 54 in Russia (no other information)
Resch: on 14 January 1945 in Fw 190 D-9 "Yellow 8" (W.Nr. 600 348 )?

Horrido!

Leo

[Erich]

Leo :

For Carl Resch of 15./JG 54 a D-9 ? or an A-8. seems the IV./JG 54 were mixing it up with the US 356th fg near Osnabrück, area around Dummer Lake according to 5-6 356th fg mission reports. Think IV/JG 54 lost some 10 Fw 190A's but maybe one of our IV./JG 54 experts can add to this ?

E ~

[drgondog]

You gentlemen innundated me just then. I need to digest but it seems so far that:

Based on the locations, Schwaiger was shot down by either LtC Dix 355Gp Ops (or Butler/McNeff- 357FS) at very beginning of the engagement from 1320-1340. They chased JG3 fighters NE from pfaffenhofen area to Regensburg area..

High probability that Fw Georg Schanz JG27 went down over/near Munich in the 1340-1400 timeframe to 354FS.

On the flip side I believe the 3 air losses of the 355 were probably due to Bartels 11/JG27 and Dahl StabIII/JG3 - matching closely with time and location of the 357FS fight. I never have been able until now to figure out what happened to Hillman and Norman - but there were no other P-51 losses that matched up to those times for any other group on 4/24.. believe mystery solved.

Richard is correct about Weinzierl (too far South on 7/28) and Roisch (1943). Believe Hirschfeld went down to McElroy S. Merseburg around 1000.

All of the 355th FG encounters on 1/14/45 were between Meppen/Dummer Lake through Munster and N.Koln from 1410-1450 if that helps with ID

Will digest and get back to you all -

Many thanks

Bill

[Richard Goyat]

About 28 July 1944 :

a) Gfr. Walter Weinzierl, I./JG 302: killed in aerial combat against escort fighters near Neustadt an der Donau. This loss thus can't be linked with the 355th FG. (Source: Jagdgeschwader 301/302, by Willi Reschke, Motorbuch Verlag, p. 115)

b) Lt. Kurt Roisch, Stab I./JG 3: wounded in aerial combat near Lexmond but died of his wounds on 30 July... 1943 (not 1944!). (Source: Messerschmitt 109 im Einsatz bei Stab und I./JG 3, by Jochen Prien and Gerhard Stemmer, p. 296 and 528 )

c) Oblt. Ernst-Erich Hirschfeld, II./JG 300: parachute jump from Fw 190 A-8 “Yellow 1” following air combat; killed when parachute failed to open, Geheren/Erfurt. (Source: Jagdgeschwader 300 Wilde Sau, by Jean-Yves Lorant and Richard Goyat, p. 260 and 358 )

Regards
Richard

[Erich]

Leo: the 356th fg chaps were heading down to shoot up 262's but am sure anything that looked German got a good treatment with .50's

Bill: I./JG 26 with D-9's were in the area of Köln so would assume this was one of the units engaged by the 355th on 14 January 45.

Erich ~

[Leo Etgen]

Hello guys

Many thanks to both for your replies. I must say that this thread is very interesting as it involves attempting to match possible victors over Luftwaffe experten. Indeed my information states that Rohwer was brought down by return fire from B-17 four-engined bombers which forced him to belly land at Mettingen. His aircraft was then attacked by P-38 twin-engined fighters and he was mortally wounded. Bill, I am going to take this opportunity to ask you a question that I have been wanting to ask you for some time. I recall that according to your research it was quite possible that it was a pilot of the 355th Fighter Group that ended the career of Egon Mayer, the Geschwaderkommodore of JG 2 who, at least in my opinion, was one of the true greats of the Luftwaffe (one of only three men to claim 100+ victories in the European theater including 26 four-engined bombers). Although the name of the 355th pilot escapes me I remember that you mentioned that his gun camara footage matches well with the events as described by Mayer's wingman. However, I recall that quite some years ago on this very same forum somebody wrote that it was possible that Captain David N Harmon of the 387th FS, 365th FG, 9th USAAF shot down Mayer's Fw 190 A-6 (W.Nr. 470 468 ) near Montmédy. Have you ever heard or read of this before and if possible could you comment on this? I do not what to interfer in or make you lose time in your current research but it would be interesting to attempt to clear this up. I am very aware that in large scale air battles it is very difficult to match victims to victors. Was the 365th Fighter Group engaged in that area? Many thanks and I am glad to have been of some help.

Horrido!

Leo