ID of White 3 of 4./JG26 Bf109E possible ID near Vitry-en-Artois, near Douai, France?

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Perhaps some of your viewers from the Doui area of northern France can help definitively ID a photo of a well-known aircraft recently posted for eBay auction. The lastest photo shows a very large, pyramidal pile of mine tailings, along with a small village and cchurch, which might be recognizable to someone who lives in the area. This is Bf109E White 3+- of 4./JG26. WNr. 779, with a single white victory bar above this number. Some people have assigned this to the loss of Fw Willi Roth in an E-3 on June 3, 1940, who went down about 40 km north of Paris. However, I'm of the opinion that this is 17 May 1940, Obfw Heinz Heidenpeter of 4./JG26 possibly down near Vitry-en-Artois west of Douai, France. My hunch is that the ore tailings pile (the pyramid) is the key to the identity.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Can anyone solve this mystery?

Thanks for any possible help.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Larry/All

Why do you and Jochen Prien ascribe the loss of Heidenpeter to the 17th while Caldwell lists him as lost on the 18th??

Cheers
Stig

[Larry Hickey]

Stig,

I don't know the answer to your question. I used Prien's volume as a reference.

Regards,

[Peter Cornwell]

Stig,

The German Quartermaster Returns list two losses to 4./JG26 on 17 May 1940 so perhaps your question is better directed to Don Caldwell who obviously had very good reason to record otherwise.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Sure Peter

If I had had Don's e-mail I would certainly have asked him the question.
Unfortunately I don't!
However I trust your own book will be covering the subject, so hopefully we will have at least your own opinion and decisions...

Cheers
Stig

[Pieter H]

Larry,

I can not claim to have definitive proof for either of the theories, but I see at least a few arguments in support of your theory that this is the a/c of Obfw Heinz Heidenpeter that came down May 17.

1. The landscape definitely looks more like the north of France than "40 km N. of Paris". It is flat, almost tree-less, quite in contrast to the region N. of Paris with plenty of hills and woods. Also the region with the mining "terrils" (the french word for these artificial mountains of cole slacks) is a broad belt going from around Béthune, and then through Lens and Douai towards Belgium around Charleroi. Not being from that area it is impossible to say which Terril and which village church those on the picture might be, but the likelihood of being around Douai is much larger than that of the area of Paris.
2. Secondly the number of victory bars. Taking the list on Tony Woods web site, I find no claims of Heinz Heidenpeter. However, this is the "corrected and cleaned-up" list, and I can easily imagine that Heidenpeter had claimed one aircraft in the first week of the campaign. Wilhelm Roth however had already 4 claims by the time he was shot down: on 18, 19 and 29 May, and June 1. It would be highly unlikely that he had not taken time to have them painted on his a/c. So his Messerschmidt should have shown at least 3-4 victory bars by June 3.

So I would say you do have a point.
Kind regards,

Pieter