8./JG1 - Uff. Helmut Johanning -

[mdejong]

Hi,

I am desperately looking for any information about an air combat with USAAF fighters in the area of St. Trond on 1st december 1943 (Solingen Raid) in which 8./JG1 was involved and lost 2 of its pilots.

One pilot, Uff. Helmut Johanning, survived (75% damaged) and made a belly landing around the belgium city of Mol. More I dont know however. There is less known on the III./JG1 on this day.

Do you perhaps have information on this event and this specific pilot?

Thanks.

Martin

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Martin

This is what I have on that particular loss:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of 8./JG 1 injured in Bf 109 G-6 "Black 7" (W.Nr. 410 098) in aerial combat, emergency landing in the Nijmegen area, 75%

I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[mdejong]

Thanks Leo.

But it is in conflict with this information I got on a forum.

Uffz. Helmut Johanning (WND) seemed to have crash-landed near Mol with its Bf 109 G-6 (damaged at 75%).


Both Johanning and Miksch flew in 8./JG1 and were according to Prien shot down in the Nijmegen area, which I personally doubt is true.

I have a wartime document (a letter to family of Miksch) from Staffelkapitaen Overhagen stating that he was found in the Albertcanal near St. Trond.

I am looking for more information regarding the loss of Miksch especially the pilot which shot down Miksch. I think that information about Johanning can lead me more in the direction.

I have some reasons to believe the 8./JG1 came in combat with elements of USAAF 56th FG near St. Trond, which claimed a tot of 4 german victims on 1st december 1943...

1. Vance Ludwig of 56th FG crashed in Merdop/AMbreson after an engagement with german fighters (2 or 3 FW 109's) near St. Trond. So elements of 56th FG were around St. Trond;
2. Johanning was, as I assume, a wingman (they flew togehter) of Miksch and Johanning crashed near Mol, so not far away from St. Trond and thats very close to the Albert Canal (were Miksch was found);
3. Lt. Foster of 56th FG claimed a FW 190 near the village of Beverloo, and that is also close to the Albertcanal / Mol.
4. On 1st. december 1943 there were 3 Bf 109 claims of 56th FG (Chistensen, Mudge and Johnson). Fred Christensen destroyed a Me109 and Ralph Johnson had a damaged Me109 in the area of South East of Roermond, which is not far away from the battle area. That could be a match with the losses of Miksch and Johanning. Mudge reported that they had an engagement with 7 Bf 109's.

Therefore I believe either Fred Christensen of Ralph Johnson shot down Miksch.

Any opinions regarding my theory, would be very appreciated....I am intensively researching the loss of this pilot ans especially I would like to know which allied fighter downed him.

Martin





Martin

[John Manrho]

I do not believe Uffz. Johanning survived the war. On my copy of the Verlustmeldung of Dec. 1st, 1943 of 8./JG 1 there is a handwritten note that he is buried at Brockeswalde Cemetery. I do not know date of death or circumstances.

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Martin

I checked the QM 6 documents and this is what is listed:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of III./JG 1 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 19 850) due to unknown causes at Pl.Qu. ML8/3, 75%

Note the different werknummer although I have noticed that occasionally the QM 6 has errors and so would I would rely more on the information that Prien provides. I entered the co-ordinates ML-8.3 of the Jägergradnetzkarte into the Luftwaffe Grid Map Converter at www.gyges.dk/reporting_grids.htm and the result was www.mapquest.com/maps?l=51.069444&g=5.305556 which indeed is nearer to Mol than to Nijmegen. I hope that I have done this correctly. Regarding Miksch, unfortunately the QM 6 lists both the cause and location of his loss as unknown. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[Alain57]

Hello gentleman ,
Perhaps this can help

Date 1/12/1943
Place : the village of Bree , in the east of the province Limburg near the Dutch border
Zipcode :3960
Me Bf-109 G-6
WNr-140007
8,/JG1 Schwarze 13
Fw Miksch Alfred ( KIA )
03/01/1919 Wien ,
43 victories
Buried at the Ehrenfriedhof at the village of Brustem near St-Truiden Belgium( St-Trond in french )
Later brought to Lommel Block/Grave 21-143
Greetings
Alain57

[mdejong]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

I do not believe Uffz. Johanning survived the war. On my copy of the Verlustmeldung of Dec. 1st, 1943 of 8./JG 1 there is a handwritten note that he is buried at Brockeswalde Cemetery. I do not know date of death or circumstances.

John,

Could you please post a scan of that specific Verlustmelding?

Thanks.

martin

[mdejong]

Thanks Alain, but reports with "Nijmegen" and "Bree" aren't in my opinion so accurate.

Here is the letter of Staffelkapitaen Heinz Overhagen to the parents of Alfred Miksch.

Martin

[mdejong]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Hello Martin

I checked the QM 6 documents and this is what is listed:

1 December 1943: Unteroffizier Helmut Johanning of III./JG 1 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 19 850) due to unknown causes at Pl.Qu. ML8/3, 75%

Note the different werknummer although I have noticed that occasionally the QM 6 has errors and so would I would rely more on the information that Prien provides. I entered the co-ordinates ML-8.3 of the Jägergradnetzkarte into the Luftwaffe Grid Map Converter at www.gyges.dk/reporting_grids.htm and the result was www.mapquest.com/maps?l=51.069444&g=5.305556 which indeed is nearer to Mol than to Nijmegen. I hope that I have done this correctly. Regarding Miksch, unfortunately the QM 6 lists both the cause and location of his loss as unknown. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

Thanks Leo...Thats very interesting information. You can see that the crashsite is close to the Albertcanal.

martin

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Martin

In the event that it may be useful to you I should add that the entry in the QM 6 for the loss of Miksch was recorded on 7 December 1943 and at the time he was listed as missing. This was later amended on 22 December 1943 as killed.

Horrido!

Leo