Oblt ??? of ZG26 Battle of Britain

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hi guys

Very confusing to say the least.

How about the Bf110 (3263) of III/ZG26 lost on 25 September 1940? Crew unnamed and therefore uninjured. I'm referencing John Vasco & Peter Cornwell's excellent Zerstorer.

Cheers
Brian

Brian,
III./ZG 26 Bf 110s never carried the small white ring around the rear fuselage.

[Brian]

Hi John

I hoped you would join the discussion.

Actually, I did not suggest that the Bf110 in the picture sequence was the aircraft in which I am interested! My interest is the crew mentioned in the ditching/rescue per the reproduced account.

My suggestion is that it might have been the aircraft of III/ZG26 lost on 25 September, for which we have no crew indentification. Any ideas?

Cheers
Brian

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

Peter Cornwell and John Vasco, both experts on the Bf110 have both looked at this issue in the past and have not found a resolution. As John points out, this can only be a I./ZG26 aircraft due to the white ring on the rear fuselage, which is diagnostic to that unit during the BoB period. III./ZG26 did not carry such a marking. I entirely dismiss the identification of this as a ZG76 aircraft/crew for the same reason.

Perhaps one small additional clue to help ID this incident may be the comment that both crewmen were injured, so there may be a casualty report somewhere in the German system if the injuries were serious enough. There is no surviving KTB for I./ZG26 for this period, at least that I know of, in the hands of the BA. Perhaps reporting at a higher level might detect this loss, which appears to have been missed in the German QM records. I've tried to get at this one through the SNFlKdo records, but the existing KTB for SNFlKdo 3 (covers the eastern channel area) at the BA does not start until 05-09-40, which is too late for this incident. The SNFlKdo 2 KTB for the BoB, covering the central channel area out of Cherbourg, does begin on Aug 12th and goes to mid-December, 1940, but we have this and the He59 NE+?? does not appear as an aircraft in their records, and it records the unit codes of pretty much all of their aircraft active on operations during this period. So, it appears, with the missing time frame for SNFlKdo 3, where I would expect this rescue to be documented somewhere in the mid-August time frame, we're not going to find the answer unless someone comes up with some of that unit's records stretching back to the beginning of the BoB. If anyone knows of such records, I'd certainly like to hear from them. Not only is this incident not documented but there are numerous other ditchings by Bf109s, with pilots being subsequently rescued by the He59s, for which the German QM records do not provide identification of the pilots. These missing SNFlKdo3 records would likely fill in many missing details for these 109s during July/August, 1940, perhaps including unknown pilot's names.

One other possible way to solve this would be if we can find a crewmen's Flugbuch from I./ZG26 for the respective period that mentions something about this incident. At the moment, I'm not aware of any FB records that would solve this mystery.

Regards,

[Brian]

Hi Larry

You, too, misunderstand my quest!!

I am endeavouring to establish the author of the account that appears in van Ishoven's book (which you have kindly reproduced). I believe this may have been the ditching that occurred on 25 September 1940.

As far as I am aware, this was NOT the ditching filmed. Or do you know otherwise?

Cheers
Brian

[John Manrho]

Hptm. Kogler spent 4 days in his dinghy also before being rescued.

J.

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

I've carefully studied the circumstances of the account and the photos, and I'm convinced that they relate to the same incident.

Regards,

[Chris Goss]

According to Kogler, he was picked up 3 days later off Nieuport

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

Here is what we have in the EOE DB on the Sept. 25, 1940 incident:

"III./ZG26 Messerschmitt Bf110C-4 (3263). Crashed in the Channel during combat with RAF fighters south of Weymouth during escort sortie for KG55 attack on Filton 12.00 p.m. Crew rescued unhurt by Seenotdienst. Aircraft 100% write-off."

It's not impossible that this incident could be the van Ishoven account. Note however, that the narrative said both crewmen were injured, and this says that they were not. I've read the Heinrich Weiss narrative about this mission, which is quite detailed, but there simply isn't enough information on this ZG26 loss to associate it with the account. As I said above, I find the areas of close agreement throughout the 17 photos and the narrative by the u/i ZG26 pilot extremely compelling and I believe that they relate to the same incident. The photos obviously cannot be of the Sept. 25, 1940 loss. According to Weiss, the search and rescue operations for the crew of this a/c were handled by SNFlKdo 2, flying out of Cherbourg. I've not yet received the KTB pages for Sept 25, 1940, for that unit from the translator and I'll update this post if they provide any support for that account being the incident on the 25th. However, I'm not expecting that to be the case.

Regards,

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

After the Bf110 ditches, the crew is rescued from the water by a He59 with the codes NE+??, which I believe was a SNFlKdo 3, a/c (out of Bouglogne). The Bf110C does not have a white nose, so this is almost certainly in August of 1940.

Larry, have you thought about tracing the dates through the He 59? I know of two such aircraft with SNFlKdo 3 - NE+TA and NE+TD. I would tend to discount NE+TA as I have photographic evidence showing it in early August still wearing its 3./906 emblem on the nose. It also did not reach the unit until the 12th. If, in the meantime it was repainted and the 8L and emblem were overpainted, there is nothing in the picture of the aircraft to suggest that. There is, however, what appears to be a faint outline of a shield on the nose but this is not in the same shape as that of 3./906....

Unfortunately I don't have any details on the service history of NE+TD. Perhaps 'Seaplanes' would be able to help out on this?

[Brian]

Hi guys

It would appear from the van Ishoven account that a Hurricane was claimed prior to the ditching. Does this help to identify the crew?

Cheers
Brian