Loss of Do 17Z-3, 3/KG2, Oblt Brandenburg, 16.08.1940.

[Joe Potter]

I am seeking a copy of any type of official British report on this crash at Whitstable, there is no record of a A.D.I. (k) report.
Thanks
Joe

[John Vasco]

Joe,
You will not find a AI1(k) report, since all four crew members were killed. 'k' reports were interrogation reports.
I think you are looking for the AI1(g) report, as the 'g' reports cover what is found in/on crashed enemy aircraft. However you need to bear in mind that the service was overwhelmed with all that came down on the previous day, and also that Brandenburg's aircraft came down on Whitstable beach. Whereas the bodies of the crew were recovered, it might be that an examination of the wreck was never made given its location (did it sink, was it smashed up and washed away by the tides?), since not even the full fuselage code of the aircraft is known.

Hope this helps.

[Joe Potter]

Thanks John, I am trying to resolve some confusion in this crews burial records, according to the Funeral Director's records they only buried the partial remains of Oblt Brandenburg, identified by his EKM, and one other member of his crew in a single coffin, hence the need for further info to confirm this.
Joe

[John Vasco]

Joe,
Reference:Luftwaffe Crash Archive, volume 2, page 167.

The four crew members are shown as : 'CC 9/49'. This is a reference to their re-burial at the Cannock Chase cemetery, and the fact that all four were buried in a single grave. I believe that would indicate that all the remains that were found of the four could fit into a single coffin.

Whether all four are in there, I cannot say from the reference. All that is said is 'Shot down by fighters and crashed in flames. The aircraft burnt out below the high tide mark of the beach'.

[Joe Potter]

John,
The other two bodies buried with them are that of Oblt Gerhard Müller and Oblt Horst von der Groeben, both KG2, 13.08.1940, but getting the VDK to concede to these facts is another story.
If you would like copies of the Funeral records please PM me an Email address.
Joe

[Peter Cornwell]

The A.I.1(k) Reports were not exclusively compiled as the result of prisoner interrogation. There are many such reports included in the AIR40 series at NA(PRO) detailing enemy losses where no crew survived. However, there are also many instances where no report was filed despite the fact that enemy casualties and/or prisoners were involved. The first such case I have noted being the loss of an He111 of Wekusta 51 in the English Channel off Margate on 12 June 1940. Nor, does it seem that enemy aircraft losses over the sea or otherwise ‘off-shore’ failed to generate a report for there are many reports on the recovery of bodies at sea or those washed ashore in the UK submitted often many months after the actual date of loss. Some otherwise well-documented crashes on land also escaped the attention of A.I.1(k) officers. You will find no report on the Bf110 of III./ZG76 that impacted on the Verne Citadel at Portland on 11 July 1940 for example. The fact of the matter is that the AIR40 collection, though far from being a definitive record, and littered as it is with wartime errors and assumptions, does form excellent prime source material for more thorough research into Luftwaffe losses throughout the war.

The A.I.1(g) Reports were digests of the same original reports, but concentrated on technical matters such as armament, bomb-loads, armour, engines, etc. Information could therefore be more readily disseminated through the intelligence community as required without duplicating the bulk of individual reports.

Unfortunately, there was no A.I.1(k) Report compiled on the loss of BRANDENBURG and his crew on 16 August 1940 despite the fact that the partial remains of (what was then thought to be) two unidentified German Airmen were subsequently recovered and buried together at Whitstable. As Joe says, the funeral director’s records of these burials includes ‘58209/88’, that being the EKM of BRANDENBURG, so there should be no dispute over the identity of the crew. However, when the grave was opened for re-interment in October 1962, close inspection revealed that remains from all four crewmen were included in the same coffin. Hence their collective grave at Cannock Chase.

[John Vasco]

Thanks for that, Peter, pointing out the overlap of branches.

However, from what I have read in the recent series of 'Luftwaffe Crash Archive', it does appear that 'g' and 'k' were two separate arms of the overall intelligence-gathering branch, albeit mutually supportive.

What I write next many will already know, as you do Peter, but it may be worth setting it down here.

The officers on 'g' duties fed in details of what they found at the crash sites. That is borne out by the reproduction of an A.I.1.(g) Form C reproduced in Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Volume 3, page 259.

And as we know, 'k' were the bods who said, 'walk this way, sit down, let's talk!'

And yes, there was cross-fertisation of information. Info gleaned from the crash site would be used to confront a prisoner with such details at interrogation time. And information at interogation time would feed into technical knowledge on items found in wreckages (Karl Stoff & Seilbomben spring to mind in this instance).

So I do not disagree with you. In the fraught times of 1940, British Intelligence Services no doubt harnessed and cross-referenced everything, and if there were overlaps, what the hell!