Who shot Mölders down on 5.6.1940?

[GuerraCivil]

The official version of the air combat:

"Stab III./JG53 Messerschmitt Bf109E-4. Shot down by S/Lt Pomier-Layrarques of GC II/7 and crashed and exploded at edge of woods on ‘Ferme du Villerseau‘ at Canly, west of Compiègne, 5.15 p.m. FF Hptmn Werner Mölders (Gruppenkommandeur) baled out landing between Blincourt and Sacy-le-Petit and captured unhurt – later released. Aircraft Black <◄ + I 100% write-off."

However things are more complicated when taking in account some witness accounts. Mölders himself mentioned when he was parachuting: "I was looking for my opponent, but only Messerschmitts were around, only them."

Mölders´s adjuntant Walter Radick noted the smoking Bf 109 going down and one parachute near of it. The time was 18.40 (!) northwest of Compiègne. According to Radick the plane had to be the one of Mölders, although at same day at same time also another Bf 109 detachment was around. According to Radick they did note that there had been an attack against the Bf 109 of Mölders. Radick thought that fatal damage of the Bf 109 might have been caused by groundfire.

The inofficial German interpretation of the happenings of the air combat of Compiègne on 5.6. are the following: first Mölders parachuted around 18.40 or 18.45 (not 5.15 pm!). There were not enemy planes around when Mölders´s plane was hit. Thus one likely explanation is that Mölders was shot down by a Bf 109 of another Luftwaffe unit. Maybe some Bf 109 pilot thought that Mölders was a Dewoitine 520!

A friendly fire incident or shall we leave the French sublieutnant René Pomier Leyarguses to keep his laurels of victory earned so shortly before his death? When it comes to Mölders, he was not interested to investigate this matter further. And perhaps for once it was better even for Luftwaffe´s PR department to allow (deceased) enemy to keep the laurels of air victory than to put them in question.

René Pomier Leyrargues would have been rather forgotten fighter pilot without this incident - just one of the many young men who were killed for fighting for their country - but he will be always remembered as the man who shot the top German ace down.

Notes based on Kurt Braatz, Werner Mölders - Die Biographie (2008).

[Alfred.MONZAT]

Werner Mölders was captured by soldiers of 195ème RALT at about 16h30. The soldiers also mention that Werner Mölders told them in a schoolary french that he was shot down by a Morane

The report also mention :
- Avion n° 9-6060
- Cde : 1531
- Ez n° 8-109705 -01
- GR : Ao
- Type d'appareil : Bf-109E-1

Regards

Alfred

[Peter Cornwell]

While I am flattered to have my work (Battle of France Then & Now 2007) described as 'the official version' of events, I should point out that all times shown were adjusted to GMT equivalent so the apparent 90 minute discrepancy is not as great as GuerraCivil imagines.

[GuerraCivil]

The time difference is still about 30 minutes between "official version" and German combat reports. But anyway the differences in clock times of different combat reports are fairly common (sometimes even the dates regarding the same incident may vary), so that it is not the point.

The biggest difference is how the pilots of JG 53 observed and reported the incident compared to French sources. On that fateful mission of 5.6.1940 Werner Mölders and his men did indeed spot a formation of enemy fighters which they identified as Moranes, but as these were all ready under attack of other strong formations of Messerschmitts they did not interfere in the combat against Moranes.

Mölders recalls that he was suddenly hit from "nowhere" and other JG 53 pilots did not spot the any French attackers either. Only Bf 109´s of other units were seen around and thus it is likely that Mölders was shot down by a Bf 109 (or could it have been groundfire?).

When it comes to identifications of planes in air combat, it is well known that pilots often misidentified planes - Morane/Dewoitine/Messerschmitt - a natural mistake in fast situations causing sometimes friendly fire incidents.

Of course one can not rule out the possibility that Mölders was indeed a victim of succesfull "hit and run" -tactics of René Pomier Leyarguses (or another French pilot?), who managed to escape the attention of the surprised JG 53 pilots but fell victim to a pilot of another Bf 109 unit which was patrolling near.

[robert]

German claims in this combat 18.20 hrs, French claim 17.00 hrs.
I have no more questions.

Regards

Robert

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Does the French reported cited by Alfred cite an a/c W.Nr. of 1531? If so, that is a long-sought detail about this aircraft.

[Alfred.MONZAT]

I have no more idea what those numbers are. Maybe someone more familiar with this kind of report may be of help

Regards

Alfred

[Larry Hickey]

Alfred,

In the Revised EoE LW Loss DB, we carry this as:

"5 June 1940: Stab III./JG53 Messerschmitt Bf109E-4. Shot down by S/Lt René Pomier Layrargues of GC II/7 and crashed and exploded at edge of woods on ‘Ferme du Villerseau‘ at Canly, west of Compiègne, 5.15 p.m. FF Hptmn Werner Mölders (Gruppenkommandeur) baled out landing between Blincourt and Sacy-le-Petit and captured unhurt – later released. Aircraft Black <◄ + I 100% write-off
(Note: Revised per 09/26/12 PC email) (Note; we’ve decided to use the spelling “Pomier Layrargues” without a hypen."

Note what you posted says something about an E-1. W.Nr. 1541 was contracted as an E-3 (wing cannon), but may have been actually built as an E-4, or field modified to that standard.

It is very important to ascertain what this report is that you cited. Can you give more information on this report? Is is supposed to report information from the crash of Mölders' a/c? He bailed out so he wouldn't have necessarily landed at the same place as the plane crashed, although they could have been in fairly close proximity.

What more can you tell me about this report? For the EoE Project, we've already completed a very detailed Color Profile of this a/c, but would like to apply the W.Nr. if we can ascertain what it actually was. This report may be the clue that provides this. It is visible on the fin of the a/c but the actual number is not readable on any photo print that I've seen.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

It turns out that that Alfred's post does not contain W.Nr. information. According to the source who posts on TOCH as "Merlin," W.Nr1541 was an E-3 lost by 4./JG53 on 28.10.40, and 6060 was the a/c of Hptm Trautloft, Gr Kdr of I./JG20 in June, 1940. It was later traced while serving with the Stab of JG51 well into 1941. So neither are possible reports of the W.Nr. of Mölders' downed Bf109 on 05.06.40.

If anyone does have information on the W.Nr. of that a/c, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

Regards,

[RT]

Nd 705 lost on Dec. 39

Rémi