Loss list in London

[Eduardo]

Hi,

I will be in London next week and would like to know if someone can
help me to figure out where can I find German losses in London . I know that the P.R.O. has but where is it?
Can I get some copies of it in A-4 paper format?
How much is it?
Which subway station?
Do I have to make an appointment?
It´s open for the public?
Please give me a light of what can I do.

Thanks in advance;
Eduardo.

[Tony Jones]

Eduardo

The PRO is at Kew Gardens on the District line to Richmond. When arriving you join at the desk and then are admitted into the Reading Room on the first floor, allm this is free. If you are an existing member you call telephone a few days before to pre-order 3 files.

Copying is expensive and two self operated machines have just been installed, its about 30 pence per copy. A much better option is to ask for a "camera licence", this if free and you can take as many pics as you like.
I suggest to take out HW 5 file 425 to start as this is the start of 1944 and losses not recorded elsewhere. During a long day there I can get through approx 18 HW 5 files but be aware that there are over 700 in the series. Each file is about 50mm thick and is full of 95% dross and 5% "real info"

Tony

[Nick Beale]

The General Quartiermeister 6. Abteilung loss records are at the Imperial War Museum's Department of Documents on 12 rolls of microfilm, reference GER/MISC/MCR/18

Nearest tube station is Lambeth North.

The IWM and National Archives are a long way apart, incidentally: about 40-50 minutes on the tube (changing at Embankment) and with a 10-minute walk at each end.

Registering as a reader at the National Archives (as they call the PRO now) you need photo i/d like a passport. AND they only allow pencils in the Reading Rooms, no pens of any kind. As Tony said, digital cameras and laptops are OK, and the desks have power sockets so you can charge batteries.

[Eduardo]

Thanks a lot!

It will be of a great help.

Eduardo.

[Schenck]

Tony Jones

During a long day there I can get through approx 18 HW 5 files

You cannot be serious . I barely manage to cover three per day and I am going only through air operations over Balkans.

Eduardo, if you go to IWM, don't forget they are open Mon- Fri only, you'll need to book yourself in advance and tell their staff what you want to look into.
The entrance to the library is through main entrance and then to the left, where you will need to wait for a member of the staff to take you all way up to the library. Don't forget to eat and drink well before visit, as they have a very strict policy of movement and they want you even to check in and out when going to the toilet. Ask them to let you use a little room (if you are not claustrophobic) where the reader-printer is, it is more eye-friendly than those with slanted screens they have in the main library.

[Eduardo]

Ok

I will check that before.

Is it possible to take copies of that ( I mean paying for that) or do
I have to take a lot of photos in the IWM ?

Eduardo.

[ArtieBob]

Dear Tony,
My interest jumped when you noted 1944 losses. Are these the "Holy Grail" 1944 QM loss lists or indivividual unit losses? In either case, I am certain there are several watching this board very interested in a more detailed description of what is there. Would you please elaborate a bit more?

Thanks,

Artie Bob

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by ArtieBob

Dear Tony,
My interest jumped when you noted 1944 losses. Are these the "Holy Grail" 1944 QM loss lists or indivividual unit losses? In either case, I am certain there are several watching this board very interested in a more detailed description of what is there. Would you please elaborate a bit more?

Thanks,

Artie Bob

HW5 has sporadic individual reports of lost aircraft or pilots from various units, including damage from air raids and pilots who came down but returned unhurt. Sometimes a ground unit will report a crashed German or Allied aircraft in its area. Also there are comunications to and from depots about aircraft in for maintenance or repair. Sometimes there's a Werk Nummer or code, sometimes both. It all helps but don't expect big daily schedules of losses on all fronts or anything like that - at least I've found nothing like that so far.

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello Nick, Tony and others in the know!

Do the HW5 files hava data of Eastern front losses also, how sporadic they ever may be? Especially Luftflotte 1 units early-mid 1944?

Thanking in advance.

Regards,
Kari

[Tony Jones]

Hi All

I don't know what went wrong but this the 2nd attempt to reply.

It was mentioned that you can only take a pencil in the PRO but there are also restriction on paper. You can take in a single sheet but not an A4 pad, spirally bound notebooks are however accepted.

I am pleased to note that I am 6 times faster than Schenck buit perhaps he falls asleep there. When I look at a page and spot something of interest a quick pic and move on, the reading etc takes place later at home.

At the PRO you to have to select items for printing by your self or the copying department. You can however purchase the entre film of losses from the IWM. They sent these to the PRO for copying.

With regard to losses many of these are QM reports with far more detail that you get with the QM sheets. These give type, serial, c/n, sometimes also the stkz, decree of damage and list the crew. I have reached 2/44 and have found quite a few so far. Nick is correct in saying that not all losses are here, but what is found for 1944 is possibly the only source for this data. In addition I have just found up to 15 Bf 109 being delivered all with stkz quoted and sometimes a c/n as well.

Artie Bob I suggest you contact Ed North as I have sent him some examples, all of which were new for him

Tony