Fw 190 Crashlanding October 14th 1944

[Trendle]

Gentlemen,

That happened on October 14, 1944:

II./JG 6 / Focke Wulf Fw 190 A-8 / Ferry Flight from Gießen-Airfield to Köln-Ostheim / Shelling through P-38 Lightnings of the 474th Fighter Group - 9th USAAF / Crashlanding uphill south of Langenaubach, north to the Airfield Breitscheid (Hessen) - Deutschland / Unteroffizier Christian Ode / Seat Belts ripped on impact - banged his Head against the Reflex Sight - serious wounded (Skull base fracture, broken Nose, Bruises in both Eyes) – freed from plane by Russion POWs with an axe - Lazarett Herborn - four Weeks unconscious - recovered later

I have the following Questions:

Correct Name? Christian Ode or Christian Oje? Werknummer of the Fw 190? Has this Pilot flown again in Action until VE-Day?

Thanks in advance for your assistence!!!!

Fred

[John Manrho]

Correct name is OJE. No werknummer known and he did not fly again until VE day.

Not sure if he was actually shot down by 474th FG, their claims are just too far off....

John

[Trendle]

Assuming the P-38 pilots weren't totally blind, or were shooting at ducks or quail, or were even liars, I`m pretty sure they did shoot at the Fw 190 of Unteroffizier Oje, since no other Fw 190 was shot or shot down over the Reich territory at this day…….. In addition, this would not be the first time that location information from Allied Fighter Groups is a bit or partially wrong

Fred

[TigerTimon]

That's quite a hot take. Original Luftwaffe losses for 1944 are partially missing so one never can be sure.

[John Manrho]

Fred, you can allways use the process of 1+1=3.....but in this case, imho, it is clear the P-38 of 474th FG were in combat with I./JG 26. This is confirmed by KTB I./JG 26, LK with 12 Lightning. I./JG 26 reported two damaged 190's, allthough due to technical reasons, and the area matches exactly with the 474th FG claims.

Furthermore, the NVM of Oje does not say anything about being shot down by fighters and we have only the statement of Oje himself in that he saw "Leuchtspurmunition"....he never saw the fighters.....so I wonder....

[Trendle]

No John, with all due respect to your work, „Bodenplatte“, one of my absolute favorite books, 1 + 1 = 3 - that`s infantile!!! Contemporary witnesses report that the Fw 190 trailing behind with a trail of smoke came from the north and should approach from the south according to the flight plan (Transfer Flight from Gießen -> south, to Köln-Ostheim -> north). The dogfight between the 474th Fighter Group, 428th Fighter Squadron and the Fw 190 of JG 26 took place at about 4:30 p.m. But earlier in the day, already at 3.45 p.m., Lieutenant Carstensen and Lieutenant Henderson, this time 430th Fighter Squadron, 474 Fighter Group, not involved in the Clash with JG 26, fired on a single Fw 190 and damaged it. This happened 45 minutes before the dogfight with JG 26.
And that's exactly why I'm very sure that Unteroffizier Christian Oje got in front of the Lightnings' guns (Keyword Leuchtspur) in the area south of Cologne and turned back to look for an airfield to land. And that's probably why the approach came from the north. And indeed the emergency landing took place north of Breitscheid airfield.

Fred

[John Manrho]

Fred, good point, I did not compare times of the claims of the individual 474th FG pilots. Indeed 428th FS in combat with I./JG 26. Both 430th FS claims too early, must be something else. Still they claim at F-6177, a little northeast of Burscheid. Crashsite Uffz. Oje is 100km further southeast. Oje said he only made a small turn around Breitscheid a/f, meaning he did not fly that far northwest (Cologne). Do you have the PER's of Henderson and Carstensen?

[SteveR]

Henderson's Encounter Report is held by TNA, AIR 50/372/5. Time given on it is 1640 hours.

Happy to send it to either of you if you'd like.

TNA apparently doesn't have Carstensen's. It might be on REEL B0625; I'm not going to have time to search through it today but should be able to tomorrow night or Saturday.

[John Manrho]

Yes, please. I will drop you PM. If time is indeed 16.40 we have an issue. Also if somebody has mission reports for 428th FS and 430th FS for this day that would be great!

[Trendle]

I work with the books of Frank Olynyk -> “Credits For The Destruction of Enemy Aircraft In Air-To-Air Combat In World War 2 ETO & MTO“ and usually his remarks can be trusted.
October, 14th 1944

Lieutenant Carstensen 474th F.G./430th F.S. Fw 190 * 13 Km südlich Düsseldorf - Deutschland (dam.) 15.45 Lieutenant Henderson 474th F.G./430th F.S. Fw 190 * 13 Km südlich Düsseldorf - D. (unconf. dam.) 15.45
and:
2nd Lieutenant Rankin 474th F.G./428th F.S. Fw 190 * 15 Km südwestlich Düsseldorf - D. (dam. 0,5) 16.30->
2nd Lieutenant Clark 474th F.G./428th F.S. Fw 190 * 15 Km südwestlich Düsseldorf - D. (dam. 0,5) 16.30->
2nd Lieutenant Freeman 474th F.G./428th F.S. Fw 190 * 15 Km südwestlich Düsseldorf - D. (0,5) 16.30->
2nd Lieutenant Pemberton 474th F.G./428th F.S. Fw 190* 15 Km südwestlich Düsseldorf - D. (0,5) 16.30->