Command Atlantic, December 1943.

[sergey]

Chris, thank you very much.

[sergey]

While returning to base on 28 December after looking for targets, Lieutenant Commander Reedy encountered four He 177 aircraft. In the resultant melee, Reedy's crew managed to damage one of the enemy, sending it back towards France trailing smoke from a fire in its starboard engine. Postwar examination of German records indicated that He 177A3 Werk No. 5557 from 11/KG40, flown by Hauptman B. Eidhoff, was unable to return to base and crashed into the sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPB-110
I also saw information that another Liberator from squadron VPB-110, which later crashed on its return, had a firefight with two German aircraft over the Bay of Biscay. Is this true?

[Chris Goss]

German records state one He 177 was shot down by Mosquitoes at 1803 hrs (157 Sqn-I have photos of the damage caused to one of the Mosquitoes) and a Liberator claimed to have damaged one at 1825hrs. Another record states 3 He 177s had a combat with a Liberator and twin-engined fighters and a Sunderland. Reedy's combat was at 1825hrs with 4 He 177s and he did not file a claim for anything according to Coastal Command. Only loss was Eidhoff's He 177. As to the PB4Y-1 lost, 63926/E VB-110 was lost when they crashed into a hill in bad weather near Okehampton killing Lt W W Parish and 9 crew. No mention of any German aircraft being involved just bad weather. If whoever wrote Wikipedia had consulted primary and secondary sources, they would have discovered the truth. Page 167 of my KG 40 proves this-the lead Mossie pilot saw the PB4Y-1 which proves what the German records state. Note the He 177 was an A-3, 535557 from II./KG 40 (5 Staffel)

[sergey]

Thank you. I'm reading the original source right now
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/77673920?objectPage=18
and there really is nothing there about Lieutenant Parish's plane engaging the Germans.

[sergey]

Between 10:00 and 12:00 on December 28, German aircraft attempted to ward off Allied aircraft shadowing German destroyers. As far as I understand, these were FW 200s. They were also shadowing British ships. How many were in the battle area at that time?

[Chris Goss]

One source: 2 Fw 200s up 0545hrs, landing 12 hours later; 11 Fw 200s up 0445-0500hrs, landing 12 hours. 1 x Ju 290 up 0640hrs.


Luftflotte 3: 8 Fw 200s up 0500-0749 hrs. One returns with engine problems. 1225 & 1235hrs Boeing spotted. Ships spotted 1235hrs
4 Fw 200s up 0636-0800hrs. Ships spotted 1305hrs as was a Catalina and Halifax


There were also Ju 88s around and reported nothing. VB-105 reported Fw 200s while VB-103 reported Ju 88s both later on. Curiously a 10 Sqn Sunderland spotted a He 111 around this time


As you can see I have quite a bit on this

[sergey]

Chris: Excellent! Thank you.

[Chris Goss]

Of interest, Condors did very little apart from shadow and those identified as participating were F8+AT, F8+AK, F8+OK, F8+ET, F8+HR, F8+BT and F8+MK with the one reported overdue. Ju 290 shadowed from 1415hrs and landed 0034hrs

[sergey]

Thanks, Chris. You have a lot of information, but it needs to be combined with what I have.
It is not entirely clear how many Condors took off on the morning of December 28. You write:
1. One source: 2 Fw 200s up 0545hrs, landing 12 hours later; 11 Fw 200s up 0445-0500hrs, landing 12 hours. = 13
2. Luftflotte 3: 8 Fw 200s up 0500-0749 hrs. One returns with engine problems.
4 Fw 200s up 0636-0800hrs. = 11
Which information is more accurate?
And one more thing. You wrote:
Of interest, Condors did very little apart from shadow
Here is information from the reports of the British cruisers against which all these aircraft operated.
28 Dec 1943
Action between HMS Glasgow and HMS Enterprise and German destroyers and torpedo boats.
Extract from the action report of HMS Glasgow.
At 1355A/28, the port 4" guns engaged a FW 200 aircraft and according to some reports this aircraft dropped a rocket bomb, clearly seen from the port director to fall into the sea between HMS Glasgow and HMS Enterprise.
Extract from the action report of HMS Enterprise.
At 1430A/28, HMS Enterprise was attacked by a glider bomb which exploded 400 yards on the port quarter. The aircraft which had released this bomb was identified as a FW 200 aircraft. AA fire from both cruisers disconcerted the plane but HMS Enterprise's close range AA fire directed at the bomb was not observed to hit.

https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/1229.html
If the Condors merely observed, then which aircraft attacked the cruisers twice with guided bombs? The He 177 attacks began much later.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by sergey

Which information is more accurate?

Bundesarchiv RL 2-II/4324 which Pawel mentioned and can be downloaded (thanks, Pawel!) holds the Germans’ own reports on each operation flown that day. I have no doubt that it is accurate but it is always possible that an item was missing.

The Air Operations Watch report that I referred to (which can’t be downloaded) includes everything the Allies learned from the day’s German radio traffic and deciphered signals, plus information from Allied aircraft and German prisoners. Again they might miss something.

Each source may include things that the other does not.

A good book on German guided bomb operations is Martin J. Bollinger’s ‘Warriors and Wizards’ (Naval Institute Press, 2010)