Breach of international rules of war?

[bearoutwest]

If I remember correctly, the aircraft were RAF Canberra PR9s stripped of markings, flown by RAF crews but under US control. Similar operations were flown by RAF crews in "ex-USAF" B-47 recce aircraft, again under American control. It was something about plausible deniability if one of these aircraft was forced down in Soviet controlled territory. There have been at least two documentary TV programes about these flights titled: "Shot down over the Soviet Union" or "Spy Overfights" or something similar.

Regards,
...geoff

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

When we also remember that the British flew a Lockheed with civilian markings taking pictures and doing Reconnaissance work during the war, it is the same: luring the adversaries...
Adriano

If you mean Sidney Cotton's photographic flights, those were pre-war and very definitely illegal. I think I read somewhere that some Lufthansa aircraft were doing exactly the same on flights into Britain.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello Nick!
Yes, they did a great job in the Mediterranean too...And of course, the Germans even used their Airship to Recon duties. I do not know if other Historians like you ( I put the H deliberately ) had information about the Luftwaffe flights over Russia before the opening of hostilities in June 1941. Did they used civilian aircraft too? It should be an interesting thread...or Lufthansa flights over the USA before December 1941...Who knows what happened? I read somewhere that even the Argentinians used a civilian B-707 during the Falklands War to do some reconnaissance of the British Fleet..( had to found the book to quote properly on a late thread ).
I bought your book on NSG 9 but it did not come yet at my hands...I am surely enjoy your work. I already saw the site..incredible work!
We will talk later! Have a nice week my friend!
Adriano

[Nick Beale]

[quote=Adriano Baumgartner;44430I do not know if other Historians like you ( I put the H deliberately ) had information about the Luftwaffe flights over Russia before the opening of hostilities in June 1941. Did they used civilian aircraft too?[/QUOTE]

There is quite a lot about this in «Moskau ruft Heeresgruppe Mitte» by Dr Günther W. Gellermann (Koblenz: Bernard & Graefe, 1988) ISBN 3763758518. the book is available in paperback or hard covers.

I read this a long time ago so I don't remember all the details about Rowehl now. Most of the book is about later operations by KG 200.

P.S. I'm only a historian at evenings and weekends!

[Brian]

Hi Nick, Adriano and others

This is all very interesting but my question concerned Graf Spee's Arado, which uniquely wore British/French roundels under its wings, with German markings on top (and presumably on fuselage), to deceive merchantmen plying their trade into believing its was a British or French machine - and that it did open fire on a merchant ship in this guise - I believe this is a slightly different scenario to most of those discussed, however interesting.

Still hoping to be enlightened!

Cheers
Brian

[Brian Bines]

Hi Brian,

To harp back to Skorzeny one of the charges was that his men were guilty of fighting in enemy uniform ' in contravention to an annex of the Hague Covention of 1907 '. Whether the Allied markings of Graf Spee's Arado would have been considered fighting in enemy uniform I have no idea. Going back to my previous post it seemed that in the latter stages of the war the Luftwaffe protected their crews flying captured aircraft on operatons by putting German markings on them. This certainly seems to indicate that the crews would have broken the rules of war if captured while flying in Allied markings, which would have applied in the Arado incident,

Regards
Brian Bines

[Brian]

Thanks Brian, more or less my conclusion.

Can anyone provide me with a copy of the photo of the Arado showing the roundels on the undersides of its wings? I will provide my postal address by PM if necessary. I was hoping that Warships Volume 4 might contain a copy (as implied) but I was outbid at the last moment on E-bay when a copy came to light!!

Cheers
Brian