JG 54

[Atlason]

I'm very interested in JG 54 - anyone up for discussions?

[Jim P.]

Such as? Curious as to what particularly you would like to discuss since I too would be interested in ongoing discussions about these units. Trading info about pilots, markings details, etc. for any unit in general would seem to be a natural on this board, but that type of discussion seems to disappear into the ether. Many, if not most, inquiries here seem to focus on particular incidents. Not that those topics are invalid in anyway. To the contrary, they can be quite informative, but they do tend to dead end themselves by their very nature. On the other hand many here have collected the numerous published works from Prien and his group and/or Classic's markings series, to name just two major series from the last few years. It kind of surprises me that there have not really been any substantive conversations about any of these publications and that they are apparently accepted as totally accurate on face value. Not to criticize the data as to losses or claims, but there are certainly photos/drawings that remain to be explained to a better extent.

As an example, one of the things that continues to irritate me is the continued reference to 'red' numbers for fighters of some units by some authors which, as anyone who has seen the actual loss data for these units would tell you, is total bunk. There is one author in particular who has published many titles in a very popular series, that I won't name, who's been dubbed an 'expert' because he supposedly has some huge pile of documents - but its pretty obvious that he hasn't actually studied them. Is there a difference of opinion as to the validity of this guy's stuff? I'm sure - and that would be a fascinating ongoing topic of discussion.

[Atlason]

Well, I belive i know one pilot who flew in the JG 54 from late 1943 to 1945 - Dieter Schmitt (a ferrypilot later). Would like to know if he has any recorded history with the unit.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Jim

I am not sure what your aim is with your mail. I can agree that the roof occasionaly is very low on these pages, since we have some extremely defensive individuals who in particular seems to make a hen out of a feather as soon as national individuals or their country is at stake.

Since I am not particularly interested in camouflage and markings (this I hasten to say is NO derogatory statement about those who are!!), I don't get your statement. But perhaps everyone who are interested in the same field does?

The interesting point is that you don't identify the individual YOU feel is wrong, but you do your best to ID him, by giving clues. Why not? Are we all supposed to be FBI here?

Why do you feel you cannot in a calm way make your own points about something you feel is wrong, why this is so and wait for (hopefully) some sane response? After all, in Europe, the death penalty has been abolished (hesitant smile, since in US it is still a reality...). The expert, in your opinion, is he a total dud, who cannot write, cannot research or perhaps "only" cannot deduct colours from black and white photos? You are not very clear as to what you really feel, but expects all others to understand you. Well I don't, but perhaps I am not your target, but that brings out the next question. Since this forum is for everyone interested in Luftwaffe and Axis powers during WW2 in particular, are you trying to exclude some by giving pointers to the chosen "few"? Isn't that a very good way of again starting a battle on these pages? This individual, in your opinion has he himself made a claim to be an expert or is it others who make that claim?

Well Jim, my response is a typical answer from someone where you have provoked a curiosity, but has no answers, but who also wants to know more.... And I can add, is also interested in JG 54, but am a hopeless amateur or minnow among the sharks if you like.

Cheers from someone who rather smiles than get mad at everybody on this forum

Stig

[Jim P.]

Not trying to spark controversy. Just kinda surprised that over the years with all the great new material that has been published, not to mention the diverse population and expertise of this board, that there seldom seems to be any substantive conversations on these titles, or about photo ids, markings, camo or whatever.

Most stuff is asked and answered, end of thread. I've tried a couple of times over the years to submit topics that I thought might make interesting discussions only to see them sink like a stone. Guess they weren't so interesting after all....but heck, there were more lively 'conversations', discussions, give and take, whatever you want to call it, for this type of stuff in the old Luftwaffe Verband....funky editing and all. Plus you only got it every 3 months. I, for one, like reading/hearing other peoples opinions, perspectives and observations. Helps me keep an open mind about things and enhances my interest in this stuff.

[Nokose]

Atlason, What kind of topics do you have interest in concerning JG54. I'm no expert but there seems to be a lot of stuff that is unknown about this unit. I've seen a lot on here about over claiming by some aces. There is also some under claiming that is never mentioned. A complete history of this unit probably can never be written without a Russian co-author.

[Atlason]

Originally Posted by Nokose

Atlason, What kind of topics do you have interest in concerning JG54. I'm no expert but there seems to be a lot of stuff that is unknown about this unit. I've seen a lot on here about over claiming by some aces. There is also some under claiming that is never mentioned. A complete history of this unit probably can never be written without a Russian co-author.

Thank you for answering - As I said above (further up then the discussions which are off topic here above and should be removed) I am looking for something about an old friend of mine, Dieter Schmitt whom I learned to know in 1986 when I started to work at the flight service station in Reykjavik airport - He used to come thru regularily ferrying smaller planes accross the N-Atlantics. I know he flew as a fighter-pilot in JG 54 between 1943 (late I think) and 1945 till the end of the 3rd reich, but I don't know much about details of his contributions. I think he was shot down two times. I think he flew ME109 and FW190. So, in general this is my interest. Btw, I haven't seen Dieter since 2002 I think when he came thru with someone as a second pilot, he's born in 1924 I think so he's pretty old already. I started looking for facts about JG 54 but didn't fiind much - This is a very famous jagdgeschwadern and in it flew famous pilots like Hannes Trautloft for example - but I see in these threads that you know all about them guys :9) How ever, this unit has become my special interest and I like to know more. Btw, I'm very interested in aeroplanes both II WW and modern.

[Nokose]

One of our members runs www.jg54greenhearts.com which is a start. A search of the posts here will also provide a lot of information. Norbert Hannig's book Luftwaffe Fighter Ace would also be good book for a personal experience with the unit. Dr. Jochen Prien's JFV series is a good source for the unit but as was mentioned nothing is perfect.

[Atlason]

Originally Posted by Nokose

One of our members runs www.jg54greenhearts.com which is a start. A search of the posts here will also provide a lot of information. Norbert Hannig's book Luftwaffe Fighter Ace would also be good book for a personal experience with the unit. Dr. Jochen Prien's JFV series is a good source for the unit but as was mentioned nothing is perfect.

Yes, thank you, I've seen this site - on this link there is a picture of Dieter Schmitt in the middle: http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/gunther.htm
I did write E-mail to Bob few days ago, but haven't received an answer yet.

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

From the Günther Rosipal J.G. 54 loss list, which can be found at http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/JG54list.htm:

On 18 December 1944 Uffz. Dieter Schmitt of 13./J.G. 54 was posted missing after a combat south of Cologne in an FW 190 A-8 marked 'White 11 + '.

Also to be found on that page is a J.G. 54 victory list by my friend Nick Hector. However, I can find no aerial victory claims by Dieter Schmitt.

Hope that is of interest.

Cheers,
Andrew A.