Fake Tail Section and Swastika?

[CCNCCN]

I'm not yet convinced this is a fake either. Likewise, I disagree that no german aircraft had green interiors (at least partially). This panel was discussed awhile back on the Wehrmacht Awards forum. If I remember correctly, the seller was asking high dollar for it and it didn't sell....so he cut it in two and sold the pieces separately. Of course this didn't go over too well with many people on the forum. The seller's excuse was that two people wanted the item so he halfed it so each person would get a piece - Ha! $$$$ Anyway, if it is original, there has to be someone on this forum who can identify what type aircraft it came from

[harrison987]

Well...I looked at every German tail known, and nothing on this matches anything Luftwaffe.

So far no one has pointed out any features that prove it to be original...but lots of features it is fake.

One of the big give-aways is the 1/2 Swastika stencil and overlap...

Of course, one still has to eep an open mind.

If someone can make a list of the reasons why they think it is original, I am game

mike

[Revi16]

Here's the idiot (Brent Smith) who cut it in half. He explains in Post #9.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=tail+section

Regards,
Mike

[Andy Saunders]

I have seen far better fakes, actually.

This has never been anywhere near Germany, probably, let alone a German fighter!

The vendor presumably knew it to be phoney and thus had no qualms in cutting it up and doubling his ill-gotten gains.

I feel sorry for the two people who were duped into parting with good money and think they have bought a treasure. They haven't.

[philippe1]

for those who are collecting,
i was informed that even REVI 16 ,fahrbeutel and kg 12 are compleetly made fake.
those beutels sold before 1000 euro's yet the fakes are offered on 5-600 on the market.

[CCNCCN]

Not that it really matters (except to the two buyers), but if not period German, it would be interesting to find out what type of aircraft this actually came from.

[Andy Saunders]

I think I am correct in saying that KG12's are "re-manufactured" from Russian Mig control column tops. Those I have seen have been (obviously) re-painted, had fake data plates applied and if one looks down inside the tube where the pole attaches a milled out groove or slot will be seen. This has been filled and rubbed down smooth on the outer surface, but the give-away is the roughly filled slot when you look inside. There are lots of these around, so beware!

[stephen f. polyak]

Here's a look at a grip in a Mig 15 (NAS Pensacola exhibit). Clearly, the design was influenced by the WW2 German KG 12/13 series. First-blush similarity has allowed these grips, with relatively little, if any, alteration, to be passed off as German. Adding to the ruse, KG data plates and terminal covers have been reproduced, and period buttons and switches abound. Put them all together and you have a $2,000 "KG 12 or KG 13". Indeed - buyer's beware!

[Ruy Horta]

Apart from the issue of cutting the piece in two, which was done in such a crude way that I suspect the seller to be either very naive (/stupid) or a fraud.

But back to the subject we can still look at the evidence as presented and look for examples:

1. Crude Swastika stencil
   Do we have any samples of such half stencils in the Luftwaffe?
   Was it a technique used by Luftwaffe painters?
   Would you expect a fraud to use a visible technique that was sure to raise questions?
2. Establishing the type
   Even if the material does't look German, based on primer, rivets and markings, that leaves a lot of room for foreign types operated by the Luftwaffe. If we can establish the type we've gone a long way to check the claim.
   The photos tell a lot about the construction and given time you might find a good match.
3. Are we missing something?
   We have a stamped number, does this mean anything to someone? What about the type set used, does it correspond to a German letter, if not can it be traced to another country?
   The exterior paint. Is it a good match for one of the RLM dark greens? Perhaps it can be traced to an Italian color?

Just some thoughts.

[Andy Saunders]

Ruy

You raise some good points!

1) Swastikas and markings were sometimes (if not often) somewhat "crude" and not as clean-cut or perfect as one might be led to believe from period photographs. I am not sure, per-se, that the crudity or otherwise of the marking helps us a good deal.

2) I accept a huge multitude of types were operated by the L/W including foreign types. However, as far as I can thus far tell this does not conform to any of the "standard" types operated.

3) The number should certainly be a clue. I have been through all my (international) indexes of known part numbers, factory stamps etc and found no match yet. It does not conform, either, to anything I can find on German types. The paint, rivets and construction just are not right for a German aircraft.

For me, this is just not "right" and years of colllecting, researching, buying, selling and handling items such as this tells me by instinct it is not the real article. I have had more than a few such panels through my hands - fake and genuine - and own three "real" ones. I would also like to smell it!! My bet is that it smells strongly of modern acrylic or oil based paints. Wartime German aircraft/paintwork do have a quite unique odour.

One possibility is that it is an old film prop, or from a film prop aeroplane, and the vendor may have genuinely believed it to be real.

However, the fact that it was latterly cut in two reinforces (for me) the belief that it is fake and the vendor knew full well that it was!

In the final analysis the buyer/owner of this item(m) must decide. For me, and without even seeing it, I know that I wouldn't touch it.