HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn

[Larry]

It there anyone who has made a study of 49 Sqn to know what individual code was carried by P4321?

Also what Operation was the Sqn on during the night of 27/28th November 1940.

P4321 got lost on return and made a forced landing at RAF Christchurch in Hampshire with arrival being given as 0850 hrs on 28th which seems quite late assuming a take off before midnight on 27th! The reason stated in Station records for the landing was failure of Nav aids and Hydraulics.

Incidentally the pilot was Pilot Officer Evans who I understand was Brian H Evans - one of the 50 escapers shot after breaking out of Stalag Luft 3 in March 1944.

Any info on this Hampden greatfully received

[Aknevelman]

Don't knew if this is true but it certainly makes an interesting story:


http://www.ma-squadron.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=966

28-11-40 P4321 Hampden,49 Sqdn.Force landed after getting lost on ops over Germany.
Crew thought they were in Holland.Out of fuel.Carpeted for not destroying their aircraft!


http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/airfields/xchres.html

P4321 Hampden forced landing 28-11-40. 49 Sq.
werke Nr 4477/GD+EG Bu131B. Stolen from Luftwaffe aerodrome at Caen on. 29-April 1941 by two ex-Armee de l'Air pilots, Heberd and Bergerac,It was flown across the Channel, intercepted by the RAF and landed at Christchurch.It was repainted in RAF camouflage and markings and flown ('unofficially') by pilots from the Special Duties Flight (TRE). Shortly after, orders came for the aircraft to be shown in London as an exhibit for 'War Weapons Week', so it was hastily repainted in Luftwaffe markings and sent to London on 22nd May, where it was vandalised by souvenir hunters. It was returned to TRE later and serial no. DR626 was allocated, but there were too many parts missing for it to be flown again. Struck off charge at TRE on 1.8.41 and presumed scrapped. (Additional info via BIA Yahoo group).

If this is true, it took the aircarft not 8 hours but 5 months to return to the UK.....

[Larry]

Sorry to say that I am very familiar with daveg4otu.tripod. Much of what is on his web page is suspect or rather not cross referenced so any old bit of info goes on there as gospel.

As for P4321 there is no evidence that the crew were carpeted for not destroying their aircraft - unless this is in 49 Sqn records though I doubt it. Any way they landed in daylight!

However I am very greatful for the link concerning the 1000 lb bomb in Mudeford. I was after a photo of it as it caused the cancellation of a family party when it was found.

[Amrit1]

P4321 EA-T

No information on the time of arrival but the delay in return was due to instrument problems over the target area - the target being Cologne.

Crew - P/O evans, Sgt Parrish, P/O Halls and Sgt Davies.

Source: "Beware of the Dogs at War: An Operational Diary of 49 Squadron" (2nd Ed) John Ward

BTW I do not believe that the Evans of teh above incident is the same one who was shot after the Great Escape. Though the initials of the first Evans is not recorded in the book, the latter Evans was a F/Lt at the time he was shotdown. Highly unlikely someone would have skipped two ranks within a week.

A

[Larry]

Many thanks Amrit.

Regarding Evans in the Hampden File by Harry Moyle (Air Britain) the entry for the loss of P4404 EA-R on 6/7.12.40 says P/O BH Evans as POW along with the rest of the four man crew. I knew Harry Moyle well and as an ex Hampden man I know he was very careful with the info in his book and he definately consulted the Sqn ORB and records etc at Kew.

Interestingly Bill Chorley also says P/O BH Evans in the entry covering the loss of P4404 in Bomber Command Losses for 1940!

F/Lt Brian Herbert Evans of the Great Escape was supposedly made POW on Hampdens (so prior to April 1942 change to Avro Manchester) and yet I cannot find another BH Evans lost in such an aircraft either KIA or POW. I doubt there were two BH Evans's on 49 Sqn at the same time.

Which begs the question if 49 Sqn records (as noted by Moyle & Chorley) recorded his rank in error as Pilot Officer, was Brian H Evans perhaps already a F/O and due a promotion that was confirmed in captivity? Or was the CWGC wrong?

Someone must have looked at the service records for the 50 murdered Great Escapers if they are available at the National Archives.

[Amrit1]

I've gone through the pages of the book (it doesn't have a proper index!) and I noe believe the entry for the loss of B H Evans being a F/Lt is a typo. At the time, according to the LG he was a P/O. This seems to be confirmed by the fact that there is a scan of a picture of the funeral of Sgt John Shaw, who was shot whilst a POW in 1942, where one of the pall bearers was Brian Evans, and he is referred to as P/O. So a contradiction in the book within two pages of each other.

A

[Larry]

It is logical that P/O Brian H Evans would attend the funeral of Sgt John Shaw as Shaw was the pilot when they were shot down in P4404 on 6/7th Dec 1940. And in case anyone is wondering, it was common at this time for pilots to act as Observers as was the case with P/O Evans, especially as he had a few 'dicky' landings in the weeks before in L4195 on 17.10.40 and P4321 on 28.11.40

I wonder if POWs received promotions while in captivity?

[Icare9]

Sgt John Shaw, aged 23 attempted to escape from Stalag Luft 1 across the snow outside the wire, covered by a white sheet. Spotted by one of the guards, John stood up and raised his arms in surrender and turned to face the German guard who then shot and killed him. The Germans did hold an enquiry into the incident, but its conclusions are not recorded. John Shaw was buried with full military honours. P/O Evans, another crew member, was destined to be executed by the Gestapo during the mass escape from Sagan.
Extract from 'Beware the Dog at War' John Ward.

[Amrit1]

Originally Posted by Larry

I wonder if POWs received promotions while in captivity?

Yes they did. I have seen many such promotions after their capture and imprisonment, and in a few cases more than one promotion.

A

[Aknevelman]

Sorry for the confusion I caused by quoting the strange story about this Hampden being captured and stolen from a French airport. I now found out from several sources that the story contains some true elements but is not related to the Hampden. A Bucker BU 131 Jungmann, Werk No 4477, belonged to Luftdienstkdo. Westfrankreich based at Quimper and was stolen by two Frenchmen, Denys Boudard and Jean Hébert, from Caen-Carpiquet in April 1941. The loss entry for this aircraft states: 30.04.41: Bü 131 defected to England from Caen-Carpiquet. The aircraft was flown to Somerford, England and put in use with RAF as DR626. A BU 131 is part of the Shuttleworth collection. It was restored to airworthiness in the Collection workshops and is painted in the scheme worn by the Luftwaffe Jungmann ‘liberated’ from under the noses of the Germans. http://www.shuttleworth.org/shuttlew...ails.asp?ID=27