Oberstleutnant Alf Gieße, Aufklärungsgruppe 123

[BABIN]

Hello,

Oberstlt. Alf Gieße, Gruppenkommandeure of Aufkl.Gr.123, was MIA with his crew, during night 3/4 September 1943. The aircraft was a Ju 88 and he was observer.

May be am I wrong, but I think that, usually, the Gruppenkommandeuren of the Luftwaffe didn't flew operational missions ... so, why did he fly such a mission this day (or this night) ? which specifical mission was it ? over which area ? and which was the cause of the loss of the Ju 88 ?.

Thank you very much in advance for any information you could give me.

Pierre BABIN

[Brian Bines]

Pierre, From QM's returns Ju88D-1 7A+LH 430778 of 1(F)/121 Ff Oblt. Waldemar Lutsch, B Oberstltn Alfred Giesse, Bf Fw Josef Swoboda, Bs Fw Friedrich Weber all missing. I have Lutsch as St.Kap and holder of RK and Giess as Gp Kom. Auf.Gp 123. I believe this was an early morning mission to the UK on the 4th. A later report from a captured crew said Giess was a popular leader, although it was felt he was keen to fly in the hope of gaining more awards. Giess held the combined pilot /observer badge. RAF records showed two enemy aircraft crossed the East Anglian coast that night. One of these a Me410 of 14/KG2 flown by Ltn. Baack claimed a twin engine aircraft south of Lincoln at 0351hrs, I think this has been discussed before on TOCH but no RAF loss has been traced. Whether Baack hit and damaged 7A+LH which then flew off and came down in the sea could be a possibilty although there in no evidence to back this up,

Regards

Brian Bines

[Doug Stankey]

Actually, it would be unusual for unit commanders to not fly missions. This was partially for reasons of morale and partially so that the commander would understand the operating conditions of his men.

According to our files, his career was:

GIESSE, Alf (Alfred).
(DOB: 26.12.02).
01.04.24 entered service with the Heer (Kavallerie).
01.03.34 trf to the Luftwaffe and ordered to Fliegerschule Braunschweig for Beobachter (observer) training.
01.10.34 appt Kp.-Chef at Fliegerschule Neuruppin.
01.01.35 appt instructor and inspector at Infanterie-Schule Dresden.
01.10.35 appt air tactics instructor at LKS Berlin-Gatow.
01.06.36 appt air tactics instructor at Flieger-Waffenschule Hildesheim.
01.11.37 attended the Höh.Lw.-Schule Berlin-Gatow (5. Lehrgang) (to 08.02.38).
09.02.38 trf to 3.Abt./Genst.d.Lw.
1939 certified fluent in English.
05.01.39 Generalstab training at the Luftkriegsakademie Berlin-Gatow (to 31.03.39).
26.08.39 ordered to Stab/Koluft AOK 8 on temporary duty and appt Ic (to 01.10.39).
01.10.39 ordered Stab/Gen.d.Lw. beim Ob.d.H. on temporary duty (to 08.01.40).
09.01.40 appt Staka 2.(Pz)/Aufkl.Gr. 31 (to 06.07.40).
07.07.40 appt Kdr. Aufkl.Gr. 41 (to 14.02.41).
15.02.41 Maj., appt Kdr. Gruppenfliegerstab 41 (a.k.a. Gruppenflieger XIV.(mot) A.K.) (to 09.41 or 09.12.41).
10.12.41 appt Ia in Stab/Luftgaukdo. VIII.
01.02.42 promo to Obstlt. and trf into the Generalstab d.Lw.
23.02.42 ordered to Stab/Fliegerführer Krim for temporary duty as Ia (to 06.05.42).
01.06.42 trf to Ob.d.L./RLM pool and ordered to Stab/Luftflotte 4 for temporary duty and appt Verbindungs-Offz. to Heeresgruppe A.
29.04.43 ordered to Aufkl.Gr. 123 for temporary duty (to 16.05.43).
17.05.43 Obstlt., appt Kdr. Aufkl.Gr. 123 (to 04.09.43).
04.09.43 Obstlt. and Kdr. Aufkl.Gr. (F) 123, MIA – flying as Beobachter (observer) in Ju 88 D-1 that failed to return from a recce mission to the British Isles area.
1945 promo to Oberst (DOR withheld).


HLdZ
DGS

[Karoband]

Just wondering what the Kommandeur of Aufklarungsgruppe 123 was doing flying an operation in the aircraft of the Staka of 1.(F)/Aufklarungsgruppe 121?

Jim Geens

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Karoband

Just wondering what the Kommandeur of Aufklarungsgruppe 123 was doing flying an operation in the aircraft of the Staka of 1.(F)/Aufklarungsgruppe 121?

Jim Geens

If the arrangement was the same in 1943 as in 1944, 1.(F)/121 was one of several different reconnaissance Staffeln subordinated to Stab FAG 123.

[Karoband]

Ah, that explains it!

Thanks, Nick.

Jim