Bf.109E shot down 19 may 1940 by Carey of 3 Squadron

[Bruce Lander]

hi,

maybe Peter Cornwell can clear this one.

"Battle of France - Then and Now" pp493 - ( magnificent Book !)
Bf.109E of 5/JG3 shot down S of Cherbourg & f/l nr Brezolles. Uffz Mias believed captured, a/c a Write-off.

I understood that by this date 3 Squadron was based at Wick recovering from it's losses in May and that Carey was also recuperating from wounds received in May.
Also J.Foreman in "Fighter Command War diaries - Vol 1" credits 3 Squadron with 2 victories on this date plus 1 by 79 Squadron.

Just which RAF units were operating over France on 19 May ?

Cheers

Bruce Lander

[Peter Cornwell]

Hello Bruce,

Thanks for raising this, I regret that I am guilty of duplicating an error. As you rightly point out, No.3 Squadron moved to Merville from Kenley on the afternoon of May 10, 1940, and remained in action there until their return to Kenley on May 20, 'A' Flight of No.601 Squadron having arrived as reinforcements on May 17. No.3 Squadron was then based at Wick from May 23, 1940. So how does one of their pilots claim a Bf109E destroyed on June 19, 1940 ? In short, the answer is that he doesn't.

My source for the Carey reference was John Foreman's RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims of World War Two Part One 1939-1940 (Red Kite 2003). Apparently, this was the sole RAF claim for a Bf109E on that date that could possibly correspond with the loss of Uffz Fritz MIAS of 5./JG3. Problem is that Foreman's work wrongly cites the unit as No.3 Squadron instead of No.43 Squadron and I failed to correct the error. Carey was originally a member of No.43 Squadron and posted to No.3 Squadron with whom he served in France until he was wounded in action on May 14, 1940, returning to No.43 Squadron the following month.

Can I assume that this answers your question and that you do not still need those RAF units operating over France on May 19, 1940 ? If so, I am happy to oblige.

Thank you for your comments, I'm pleased that you are enjoying the book - warts and all.

Regards,

PC

[Bruce Lander]

Hello Peter,

Thanks for your quick response.

Actually I am guilty of finger trouble here - I should have written 19th JUNE 1940 not 19th May.

The only RAF claims I have for 19th June 1940 are:-

3 or 43 Sq(?) - P/O F.R.Carey ------ 2 - Bf.109

66 Sq P/O H.R.Allen + 2 --------Ju.88 Prob 40m NE of Yarmouth

79 Sq Sgt R.R.McQueen --------He.111, He.111 Prob N.France

Foreman's "FCWD Vol1" is source. "Ace's High" does not credit Carey with any claims on this day and as far as I recall "Frank Chota Carey" by Franks does not mention this. Certainly Jim Beedle's "43 Squadron"
has no note of it - maybe Andy Saunders can comment if 43 Sq was
in action over France on this date?

Regards

Bruce Lander

[Andy Saunders]

Bruce

After a bit of a mauling on 7 June 1940 it was not until 16 June that 43 were back over France - this time with George Lott carrying out a recce over the Cherbourg peninsula, covered by Fg Offs Haworth and Upton. However, it was not until 21 June that 43 Sqn became fully operational again after that 7 June episode.

I have no record of 43 Sqn being operational over France on 19 June and, indeed, I believe they were not.

Hope this helps a little.

[Bruce Lander]

Hello Andy,

Thanks for that, I was pretty sure that both 3 and 43 were non-operational at this time. Carey did claim a 109 on 19th JULY 1940 so maybe thats were the mix-up starts. Anyhow it still leaves the question- who shot down Mias on 19th June?

Cheers

Bruce Lander

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello Bruce and others,

My info is (alas) limited on this. Yes, Uffz Fritz Mias of 5./JG 3 was shot down in combat with Hurricanes on 19 June 1940. He made a crash landing with his Me 109E south of Cherbourg (near Brézolles/France).

I only have this source indicating that Carey claimed a Me 109 on 19 June 40: http://www.the-battle-of-britain.co..../Ca-pilots.htm. Aces High (Shores and Williams, page 166) state no claim on 19 June 40. Aces High states a claim on 19 July 40.

Who can provide more details on the RAF fighter who claimed Mias?

Best regards,
Rob

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

Just to add from RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims pt 1 1939-1940 by John Forman.

19th June 1940
3 Sqn - Hurr FC
P/O F.R. Carey - Bf109 - destroyed - Location - Unknown - time ?
P/O F.R. Carey - Bf109 - destroyed - Location - Unknown - time ?
Both probably not confirmed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
19th July 1940
43 Sqn - Hurr FC
P/O F.R. Carey - Bf109 destroyed - Selsey Area - 1710.

There is an interesting thread that includes info on MIAS Bf109 "8+" or "11+" that was started by Larry Hickey way back in 2005.

Alex

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello all,

Did some further research on Mias and Carey.

Mias flew later Me 109E-4, w/nr 1464 and marking Schwarze 8. On 19 June 1940 at 1210 hours I./St.G. 1 attacked with Ju87's the fortress off Cherbourg. These Ju87's were escorted by Me 109's of II./JG 3. In return the Me 109's were attacked by the fighters of 43 Squadron. P/O F R Carey claimed two Me 109's. Only one Me 109E-1 of 5./JG 3 was shot down - it crashlanded at own territory and burned completely (100% damage). Mias returned to his unit the next day.

Who can provide more details...?

Best regards,
Rob

[Bruce Lander]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your reply, what is your source for the 43 Squadron combat on 19th June ?
There seems to be a doubt that 43 were in action on that day or even that Carey was flying!

Cheers


Bruce Lander

[Andy Saunders]

I have nothing on this, and don't think I missed it!!

Further, Frank Carey came back from France on 6 June (after his period with 3 Sqn) and seems not to have flown again between then and 24 June when he took P3786 up for local flying when he was back with 43.

Like Bruce, I'd be keen to know your source that has Carey flying and making a claim on 19 June.