R. Muller of 6./JG 5 victory on 30.05.42

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

R. Muller of 6./JG 5 on 30.05.42 had claimed 1 Soviet "Hurricane". May someone knows exacte hour and minuts of this victory?
On this day Soviet had lost a few fighters (2 HC + 1 Kittyhawk) and I would like to mach his victory. It was HC or Kittyhawk?

Regards,
M. Wawrzyński

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Mirek

Prien has the following information for the claims of II./JG 5 on that date:

Leutnant Heinrich Lesch of 5./JG 5 an I-16 at 8:00
Leutnant Heinrich Ehrler of 6./JG 5 a Hurricane over Ostausgang Kola Münding (16)
Feldwebel Rudolf Müller of 6./JG 5 a Hurricane over Ostausgang Kola Münding (39)
Unteroffizier Hans Döbrich of 6./JG 5 a Hurricane at 9:18 over Kola Münding (9)
Unteroffizier Thode of 6./JG 5 a Hurricane over Kola Münding

I wish you luck matching these claims to the Russian losses.

Horrido!

Leo

[mmoustaf]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

R. Muller of 6./JG 5 on 30.05.42 had claimed 1 Soviet "Hurricane". May someone knows exacte hour and minuts of this victory?
On this day Soviet had lost a few fighters (2 HC + 1 Kittyhawk) and I would like to mach his victory. It was HC or Kittyhawk?

Regards,
M. Wawrzyński

Kittyhawk lost on 30.05 is 2nd GvIAP SF commander Safonof's mount

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Yes, in Kittyhawk was "shot down" exactly Safonow, but up to just now, it is impossible to verifie reason of this loss.
He took off on 9.20 Sovite time with 4xKittyhawk, but only 3 participated in the battle (one returned due to engine problems).

Second, there were other units flying on Hurricanes and Sovite did admit 2 HC lost.
It is also possible that he was hit by returned fire from Ju 88 of KG 30 (?).
So this is not so easy puzzle.
If concerning Muller it is know, that he claimed on this day "1 HC".
There were some speculation after capturing him by Soviets, that he shot down Safonov (3x?).

BTW Safonow was commander not 2. GIAP but 2. GSAP VS SF (mixed air regiment, it was not pure fighter unit). There was one bomber flight (SB, Pe-2 and DB-3F) in this unit as it was in former 72. SAP VVS SF.

Regards,
mw

[Maxim1]

According to Russian historian Aleksandr Mardanov, Muller shot down one HC from 2 GKAP. In this combat with 6./JG 5 (time around 9:20-9:40) 2 GKAP lost two Hurricanes as force-landed (starshiy leytenant Amosov and leytenant Panov, both survived) and two as damaged. The Germans claimed 4 Hurricanes.

Safonov was surely shot down by return fire from Ju-88, but the official reason of his loss reported as engine malfunction.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi, thanks, probably you know that for about 8-9 years are direct "fight" between Mardanow and Yury Rybin on articles about 1941 air war over Artic.
This second author, is for me much more better in his very deep resarches for obev 10 years.

Mardanov, as for me, knowing his several works, simplified and make some ommision in his works. He wants to see history very simply, almost without any reflection and distans to the past.
It is very hard to say, that it was exactly HC form 2. GSAP, there were two others regiment there and also fought + had losses too.

When I read Mardanov articles, I always hasitate, if he is not something omited to fit his personal vision of history to the true. I do not have such feeling towards Y. Rybin.

Anyway thanks for the tips, :-)
mw

[Peglar]

Rudi Müller.

Greetings Peglar