Looking for informations about Bf 110s from 3.(Z)/LG1 and I./ZG76 during PC.

[Bf 110]

Hello everybody,

I'm looking for informations about the crew of a Bf 110C-1 from 3.(Z)/LG1, code L1+EL, crashed September 3, 1939 near Ostroleka. Name, rank, fate of the crew?
And as second question. Are there any further informations about a Bf 110C-1, Wnr. 1797 from I./ZG76, shoot down on September 17, 1939? (code, crew, crash side?)

Regards,

Bf 110

[edgardo gil]

I have the book "Zerstörer gruppe. A history of V./(Z)LG 1 - I/NJG 3. 1939-1941" by Ludwig von Eimannsberger. Schiffer publications.
In chapter 2 "Poland" page 15, it reads that on the first mission on september 3 (7:15-10:00AM), three aircraft were lost:
two aircraft of 15th staffel (Uffz. Mazurowski/Uffz. Lothar and Uffz. Plankenhorn/Uffz. Kottman) they were crashed on Warsaw area.
one aircraft of 14th staffel (Uffz. Lindemann/Uffz. Radeck) forced landing near the river Bug.
On the second mission (2:35-5:10 PM) in the Ploch-Ciechanow-Siercec area, the 13th had a casualty "The first member of our Staffel to be killed in this war", the radio operator Uffz. Rahlfs was killed by a well aimed burst of a PZL 24. The pilot, was the Staffel´s Kapitän Oblt. Müller and landing safe.
The only other casualties of the unit were on september 7th. The deputy Gruppenkomandeur and Kapitän of 15 staffel Hptm. Schleif and his radio operator Uffz. Haupp.

[Recceswind]

Originally Posted by edgardo gil

burst of a PZL 24

- There were no PZL P.24 in use during the PC (only PZL P.7a, P.11a, P.11c and a single P.11g).

- There is in I./ZG 76 KTB no detailed info about September 17, 1939 losses.

[edgardo gil]

Maybe the germans confuse the PZL 11 with the PZL 24.

[Recceswind]

Not maybe, but for sure. Probably all original PC German documents call Polish fighters "PZL 24".

It is a little bit annoying that some authors still use original German designation without any comment.

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Recceswind

Not maybe, but for sure. Probably all original PC German documents call Polish fighters "PZL 24".

It is a little bit annoying that some authors still use original German designation without any comment.

Nothing unusual. Soviet airmen also claimed P.24s even in... 1944.

[Recceswind]

You are absolutely right: wrong identification of the enemy aircraft is not unusual. It was very common.

BTW: Romanian and Bulgarian AF still had some PZL P.24 in use in 1944, so theoretically it would be possible.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Edgardo

Technically the V./(Z)LG 1-I./NJG 3 book is wrong. At the time of the PC the unit was still desígnated I./(Z)LG 1 and was not changed to V./(Z)LG 1 until Nov 1st 1939. The losses were then as Bf 110 says from 1. to 3. Staffeln.

It is also interesting how Taghon's book about LG 1 gives a totally different view of the day's action. All losses during the afternoon mission(s), since he indicates two missions during the afternoon, possibly same take off but differents routes...

Taghon makes no mention about the forcelanding by Lindemann/Radeck...

BF 110
What is your source about the code L1+EL??

Cheers
Stig

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Recceswind

BTW: Romanian and Bulgarian AF still had some PZL P.24 in use in 1944, so theoretically it would be possible.

Theoretically yes, practically no. I have researched the individual history of every Rumanian P.24 and, obviously, there was not combat loss in 1944.

[Bf 110]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

BF 110
What is your source about the code L1+EL??

Cheers
Stig

Hello Stig,

my source is Marius Emmerling's Luftwaffe nad Polska pt.1 Jagdflieger. There are photographs between pages 192 and 193. One of them shows belly-landed L1+EL.

rgds,
Bf 110