All metal Mosquito ??

[Graham Boak]

I stand by my comments: given that metal replaced wood in all but a very small handful of designs, including ones originally designed in wood, the matter seems clear. Given that no-one will ever spend an equivalent amount of effort designing a metal version of the Mosquito, the point is probably unprovable.

It is not true that DH had trouble selling the Mosquito to the RAF: it was supported throughout its design, development and production phases. Do you seriously think an unapproved aircraft would have been allowed such a diversion of design effort and two precious Merlins? No doubt there were elements in the RAF that thought it the wrong choice, but the same comment can probably be made about every aircraft the service has ever had (including the Spitfire). The RAF, with the associated Ministries and Establishments, cannot be expected to speak with a single voice on such complex matters. Any manufacturer may understandably consider that (at certain times) it failed to get all the support it wanted - that's not the same as being unsupported at all.

A quick look gives me a max. speed for the Spitfire Mk.V of 374mph at 13.000ft. and the Mosquito B Mk.IV at 380mph at 17000ft. It is important to quote not just the top speed, but the altitude for which it is quoted. 6 mph is probably the penalty for the Spitfire's flat armoured windscreen as opposed to the Mosquito's V-screen, but is little more than the variation from one aircraft to another off the production lines. The Mk.V Spit had been in service a year before the Mosquito reached the squadrons, and the Mosquito was of course flying against the Fw190, which could reach over 400mph at similar altitudes.

Which might help to explain why the Mosquito day bomber loss rate was higher than that of the Blenheim it replaced, and why it was removed from service as an unarmed unescorted day bomber after use by only two squadrons. The pure bomber never did return - the fighter-bomber variant did, but served as a conventional light bomber under fighter escort, and only after the threat from the Luftwaffe had been considerably reduced.

The Mosquito was a wonderful design, with many fine features and a great service career. However, many of the stories are propaganda myths - particularly for the bombers - and a more measured judgement is needed. It couldn't "walk on water".

[Markus Becker]

Follow up question.

Someone suggested making more Mosquitoes at the expense of heavy bombers. Someone else said this wasn´t possible as the Mosquito needed the work of expert carpenters and that all carpenters with the required skilles were already making Mosquitoes. True?

[Kutscha]

Originally Posted by Markus Becker

Follow up question.

Someone suggested making more Mosquitoes at the expense of heavy bombers. Someone else said this wasn´t possible as the Mosquito needed the work of expert carpenters and that all carpenters with the required skilles were already making Mosquitoes. True?

Markus, considering the number of women one sees in photos building Mossies, I wouldn't put much stock in that statement.

[glider1]

Markus
To quote loss rates is meaningless as the missions were very different. True the loss rates of the Mosquito were at times higher than the Blenhiem particually in the early days. However the missions were often beyond the wildest dreams of a Blenhiem squadron or any other squadron of any airforce. Amongst the early missions were the unescorted daylight raids over Berlin, unthinkable in any other aircraft.

There were also many examples of Mosquito's running away from German Fighters but also some where they were caught. At a guess with the Maximum speeds being close, the amount of fuel carried may well have had something to do with it, plus of course the tactical situation. If the Mosquito has any kind of a lead then its going to take a lot of catching.

Again its true to say that the Mosuito bombers normally operated with an escort but sometimes these had to be Mosquito fighters as nothing else had the range/speed combination. Its also true that the PR Mosquitos operated on their own with considerable success.

A final observation, Mosquito's with bulged bomb bays wold normally carry 6 x 500lb bombs on racks made by Handly Page.

[Markus Becker]

Originally Posted by Kutscha

Markus, considering the number of women one sees in photos building Mossies, I wouldn't put much stock in that statement.

Sounds right. I did a few searches in that online book and "skill" comes up once, "carpenter" and "unskilled" never.

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by mhuxt

Better comparison would be against the prototype with 61s, as MP469 had a gun fairing slung underneath the fuselage.

AFDU report said the Mosquito IV was 4-5 mph faster than the Spitfire V, though the Spit was using emergency boost, the Mossie not.

I see your point, and of course there were minor discrepancies from plane to plane when modified in various ways.

Spitifire N3297 was apparently the first to get retrofitted with a Merlin 61, and my source says this aircraft reached 414mph at 27,200ft in January 1942. Guns and ammo were removed and replaced with ballast. I cannot tell from the photos if this prototype had the same kind of windscreen and underwing air scoops like those on Spitfire AB505. Some versions of the Spitfire IX had clipped wingtips and this would also account for a slight change in maximum speed.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Kutscha

Markus, considering the number of women one sees in photos building Mossies, I wouldn't put much stock in that statement.

Can't women become skilled carpenters then?

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by Markus Becker

Follow up question.

Someone suggested making more Mosquitoes at the expense of heavy bombers. Someone else said this wasn´t possible as the Mosquito needed the work of expert carpenters and that all carpenters with the required skilles were already making Mosquitoes. True?

I'm sure that deep in the bowels of the British National Archives there lies at least one prewar economic study that compared the estimated number of skilled carpenters with the estimated number of skilled metal workers in the United Kingdom.

The low wing aluminum monoplane was a relatively new technology in the 1930s. As a side note, nearly all wartime fast patrol boats and subchasers were mainly of wooden construction. Steel was too heavy and aluminum welding techniques were not refined enough for efficient mass production. In other words, the shipyards and the admiralty had to compete with other industries for the services of highly experienced carpenters.

[Graham Boak]

As an aside, and from direct personal experience, the rivalry between HP and DH was so intense that I'm rather surprised that HP made any bombracks for DH, even under wartime conditions. As the bulged bombbay was no longer than the original, which could only take 4x500lb if the fins were shortened, are you describing some kind of triple rack? The usual carriage of 6x500lb would be with 2 underwing.

The later Mosquito day bombers were not escorted by Mosquito fighters - the Mosquito was not employed as a day or escort fighter, not least because of its inability to fight with single-engine fighters. The Mosquito made a superb night fighter, and heavy fighter for Coastal Command, but not where enemy fighter opposition could be expected. For longer-range missions, Mustangs were available which could comfortably exceed the range of the FB Mk.VI, but 2TAF did not fly deep daylight penetrations.

The Mosquitos were indeed flying missions with deeper penetration than the Blenheims, but they were employed as a direct replacement. The point is that such missions, however spectacular from the propaganda point of view, resulted in unacceptable losses. As indeed did similar US attempts with the B-26.

[Kutscha]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

Can't women become skilled carpenters then?

Only after several years in the trade. Actually the proper trade name would be cabinet makers. Do not ever call a cabinet maker a carpenter!