Hartmann on the 20Oct43

[Juha]

Hello
Soviet got only HE rounds for the 37mm M4 cannon of P-39s, so one possibility is that it was a dud, the "large calibre bullet" probably means a 12,7mm HMG bullet. So IMHO the .5 hits are possible, it was possible, depending where they hit, that a plane hit by a couple .5 bullets was repared in the unit, and capable to fly on next day or a couple days later. A 37mm hit, even a dud, probably meant an engine change, but that could also be done in the unit, if there was a spare engine available and a spare engine cowling.

Juha

[Nokose]

Andreas and Juha, thank you for your input on possible damage that could be caused. I've checked some of the facts as best I can from the book. The date seems to match other incidents of losses in the unit and claims of victories. The possiblity is that the .37mm might have come close but looked like a hit in combat conditions (trick of the eye) along with a even one minor hit from the machine gun.Shortly after he was receiving the hits from the Bf 109. I'm sure he was using his log book to keep him on track. The training he had just getting out of flight school was the reason he gave for firing so few rounds. He stated his instructors had told them to conserve ammuntion while training. I've seen things like that establish bad things in dangerous situations.

[Nokose]

Hartmann claimed a double on 20Oct43 of two Airacobra and Rall also claimed an Airacobra in this time period. Ml.Lt Viktor Grigorevich Korolev's Airacobra was shot down but was repairable and his wingman Ml.Lt. Evgeniy Mariinskiy's Airacobra was damaged. The Airacobras of the 129 GIAP were the victims in this case but there were more losses then these that morning so it's not possible to say that this was the incident involving Hartmann for sure.

[Nokose]

I was going through "Fighter Aces of the Lufwaffe" by Toliver and Constable (from Schiffer books) and on page 132 was a picture of Hartmann and Bimmel Mertens "NEAR Miss Bimmel Mertens, crew chief, and Erich Hartmann examine a bullet hole in the windshield of Hartmann's Bf 109". Does anyone have any idea when that picture might have been taken?