Airfield located.

[Larry deZeng]

RSwank - your excellent description of Orsmaal defines it as a true satellite field (Ausweichflugplatz) as opposed to a remote dispersal (Aussenliegeplatz), Abstellplatz (parking area for aircraft not in use) or Behelfsflugplatz (auxiliary airfield). The main difference was that it had its own take-off and landing strip but no services or infrastructure, and was not connected to Saint Trond airfield by taxiways or taxi tracks.

Meanwhile, and of curiosity value only, I found one more landing strip near Saint Trond:

Saint Trond – Bernissenbroek (BELG) (50 49 25 N – 05 12 55 E). Former landing ground 2 km ENE of Saint Trond and S of the Saint Trond/Tongres railway line. It was a private landing ground before the war measuring approx. 320 x 320 meters (350 x 350 yards).

The daily mission summaries for the groups are probably at AFHRA Maxwell and NARA WashDC may have a copy, too. I know AFHRA has the various command daily opsums on microfilm.

Schiffer published a large over-size book in 2003, USAAF Jabos in the MTO and ETO that goes on for 391 pages, double column, but the author never looked at a single mission document. Not one. So for the purpose of finding some details about a mission on a particular day, the book is worthless.

L.

[RSwank]

I don't think the loss of 20 airplanes on this field was anything unusual when you consider what was happening at the time. The two maps below show the battlefront on 1 Sept 44 and 15 Sept 44. Looking at how rapidly the Allies advanced (and/or the Germans pulled back) you can imagine how much material was abandoned by the Germans. This airfield was one of many in Belgium that were overrun in a very short period of time. Pretty much all of Belgium was liberated in that time period. Any plane that could not be flown out (or was short of a pilot to fly it out) would have been abandoned. (You probably know what was the exact date of the liberation of this area of Belgium. )


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...frontAtlas.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...frontAtlas.jpg

[Larry deZeng]

brumic wrote in part:

What I can't understand is that the germans lost approx. 20 aircrafts (I located 5 of them) and theres nothing written about this great loss.

If the 20 aircraft were destroyed by Allied planes then it is probably written down somewhere. All we can say is that they were not destroyed by planes from the 8th AAF. But they could have been attack by 9th AAF planes or by the RAF. I don't know as I don't have the sources to investigate it.

On the other hand, if they were demolished by the Germans as they were evacuating Orsmaal and found there by the advancing Allies, they would be covered in the joint RAF/USAAF captured enemy airfield report series that has been mention here on 12 O'Clock High numerous times. These were usually referred to as "A" reports and "B" reports. The one for Saint Trond should include Orsmaal and provide considerable detail on the wrecks found there.

L.

[brumic]

I have interviewed eldry people, and they told me there where 2 units 1 airunit and 1 groundunit.
Alll the aircrafts that where located in orchards/forests where shot down by American Aircrafts.
All the other planes, located near barns or covered with other material (sheet metal, typical farmer ways to cover them) where shot down by fieldtroops (footsoldiers).
The Germans must have known something was coming on because 3 days before something that looked like a p-38 scouted the area.

Map drawing of the original airfield was drawn by Mister Lardinois.
Lardinois submerged to Ireland in protection against the Germans, Lardinois died approximatly 6 years ago.
I had spoken with a family relative of him, they knew of his deeds but never said anything about it because it was a fragile subject amongst them.

[Larry deZeng]

Brumic - I need a little clarification on your phraseology. You used the term "shot down". This means the German aircraft were in the air when they were hit. But it seems that you really mean they were shot up on the ground. The aircraft in the orchards and forest were strafed and shot up by American planes. The aircraft near barns or covered with camouflage material were shot up by American ground troops. Is that correct?

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

I confirm some of the statements made by Brumic. I had met also a witness (a former butcher) who told me some wreckages were found after allied strafings occured.
Perhaps Brumic can find Resistance/weerstand reports, with sketches, at the CEGES (don't know the flemish translation): http://www.cegesoma.be/cms/index_fr.php
I found such 'reports' about German airfields in réseau MARC, CLARENCE, etc.. Albeit often much approximate and sometimes silly, they can be the only rooth to gather thin info's about those 'satellite' airfields - if made.
No mention of that particular field in AI2g reports.

I would be just curious about the parts Brumic found and ID'ed, could you post some pictures?

By the way, I remember a post (made by Reetje?) about a map box of a Bf 110, perhaps coming from that field, thus in the Brustem area?

Best regards

ClinA-78

[brumic]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Brumic - I need a little clarification on your phraseology. You used the term "shot down". This means the German aircraft were in the air when they were hit. But it seems that you really mean they were shot up on the ground. The aircraft in the orchards and forest were strafed and shot up by American planes. The aircraft near barns or covered with camouflage material were shot up by American ground troops. Is that correct?

Yes indeed, that is what i meant. They where all shot up on the ground like you described it.

[brumic]

@Ckin1-78 about the pictures, I have an agreement with the local goverment to do more research on public and private grounds. Untill this ain't finished I don't really want to post pictures because local "Treasure Hunters" want to digg up something that could be very usefull for these reports.
If you don't really believe me I might send a pm with a few pictures.
I have found some parts that has a production date from January 1944. (found it on the cd luftfahrt archiv hafner)
The pictures u mentioned about Reetje's map box have been taken offline from photobucket and don't exist anymore.

[ClinA-78]

Hello Brumic,

By pure chance, I found some info's related to an Horpsmaal (sic.) field or at least related to St Trond airdrome air activity during the messy period of Retreat-before Liberation timeframe.

On the 28/08/44, III./JG 27 came frome Lappion-Boncourt to Horpsmaal (sic). I don't know if it is connected to Horpmaal (10 km SE of St Trond/Brustem airdrome) or Orsmaal satellite field cause the spelling mistake. Whatever, on the 29th a straffing occured there leading to 22 probably damaged/destroyed Bf 109 and causing the death of at least 3 ground crew of 9./JG 27.
Moreover, Uffz. Rudolf WEITZ's Bf 109 G-6/U2 (WNr.413732, 10./JG 27) seems to have been brought down by its own Flak during a emergency take-off.
J-B Frappé in "La Luftwaffe face au Débarquement allié en Normandie" confirms both those casualities (he quotes 25 ea) and the ORSMAAL spelling.

The 353rd FG claims 18-0-7 on the 29th on A/D 30 miles N-E of BRUSSELS 4VK 0473 but it sees to be Le Culot/Beauvechain airdrome where Capt. Smith was KIA by Flak. I./JG 4 was there at that moment.

Well nothing easy with this messy period.

Hope it helps

ClinA-78

[Larry deZeng]

Jochen Prien's multi-volume history of JG 27 should cover this in detail, considering so many Bf 109s were allegedly destroyed or damaged on the ground. There are 12 O'Clock High members who have these books and could look up the events of 28-28 August 1944 if they were inclined to do so.