Ltn Hermann Leube

[Tony Clifford]

Hi. I am looking for any information on the above named night fighter pilot. On 3/8/1943 he was the pilot belonging to 2/NJG 3 that claimed that he shot down a Stirling or 4 engined bomber. All Stirlings were accounted for on that night of the raid on Hambug. What is missing is the Lancaster W5000 QRB that vanished without trace. It has been suggested that Leube could have made a mistake in ID and that it wasn't a Stirling but the missing Lanc. This happened about 20km NW of Juist. I would like to know the type of a/c he was flying, his base and any other detail. My uncle was the tail gunner on the missing Lanc. Thanks Tony

[Tony Clifford]

Hi All. I would appreciate anyone's view on how easy or difficult it would have been to identify an aircraft as a Stirling or a Lancaster. This would have been at about 3.30am at around 13700 feet. Is it fair to say categorically that it would be either one or the other? Could a person be absolutely sure. The weather had been cloudy with thunderstorms. I guess the distance would also be crucial. At what distance did night fighters attack?

[Alain57]

Hello ,

Here some info on Ltn Leube :

Leube, Hermann Oblt
2/NJG-3 (8/43), 6/NJG-3 (12/43), Stab II/NJG-3 (2/44), 4/NJG-3 (6/44)
Bf 110 & Ju 88G-6 Werk # 620889 (lost 12/28/44)
DK-G, EP, EK 1 & 2, Night Fighter Operational Clasp
KIC 28 December, 1944 in a failed belly landing, his G-6 crashing at Benthuizen Holland.
One known victory, a Stirling opposing the Hamburg raid on 3 August, 1943. A double victory on 23 September, 1943; both "4 mot" SW of Ludwigshafen. A "4 mot" W of Düsseldorf on 3 November, 1943. A 4th known, an "unidentified" AC W of Berlin on 2 December, 1943. A 5th, a Halifax at Frankfurt am Main on 20 December, 1943. A "4 mot" 60 km N of Braunschweig on 20 February, 1944. A "4 mot" SW of Frankfurt on 24 February, 1944. A "4 mot" 100 km WNW of Duisburg on 22 May, 1944. A "4 mot" at Walcheren on 25 May, 1944. A "4 mot" at Eindhoven on 22 June, 1944. Two "4 mots", one E of Bremen, the other near Cuxhaven, on 13 August, 1944. A "4 mot" ESE of Kaiserslautern on 26 August, 1944. A "4 mot" near Königsberg on 30 August, 1944.

Source :
http://www.aircrewremembered.com/Kra...manPilotsL.htm

LEUBE, Hermann. (DOB: 19.03.24 in Reichmannsdorf/Saalfeld). 02/03.08.43 Lt., in 2./NJG 3.02.12.43 Lt., 2./NJG 3. 20.12.43 Lt., with 6./NJG 3. 29.01.44 Lt., appt Stafü 6./NJG 3. 19/20.02.44 Lt., in Stab II./NJG 3. 19.06.44 Lt., 4./NJG 3 awarded the Ehrenpokal. 21/22.06.44 Oblt., 4./NJG 3.
01.05.44 Oblt., appt Staka 4./NJG 3 (to 28/29.12.44, KIA – in Ju 88 G-6 that crashed during emergency landing at Benthuizen/Holland). 12/13.08.44 Oblt., 4./NJG 3. 30.08.44 Oblt., 4./NJG 3. Buried at Ysselsteyn. Credited with 22 victories.

Source :
http://www.ww2.dk/Lw%20Offz%20-%20L-R%20-%202013.pdf

Regards

Alain57

[Tony Clifford]

Hi Alain

Thank you for your response to my question. I know that Leube claimed a Stirling he shot down on 3/8/43. I am trying to establish whether it is unlikely, likely or very likely he could have made a mistake in identity and that he actually shot down a Lancaster. The Lancaster could have been W5000 QRB. To this day the Lancaster is missing in action presumed killed.

I have read in various forums that all Stirlings (4) on that night have been accounted for. Do you or does anybody else have a view on the comments? Tony

[Melvin Brownless]

Hi Tony, We have a photo of Leube in our collection if you are interested? We in turn could construct a page of remembrance for the loss of your Lancaster and crew on our website....

Kind regards,

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk

[Alain57]

Hi Tony ,

Normaly a nightfighter made his attack from behind , so he must have seen the one big rudder from a Stirling and or the twin rudder from a Lancaster.

Regards

Alain57

[Tony Clifford]

Please can anyone give me the details of the Stirling shot down by Obltn Leube at 03.28h on the 3/8/1943 from 13700ft 20km NW of Juist after the raid on Hamburg. The squadron and or the a/c ID numbers would be wonderful. If this is not known can anyone tell me where to look to find the information. Thanks. Tony

[Alain57]

Hi Tony ,

These are the Stirling losses for that night.

2/08/1943 3/08/1943
7 Stirling I R9260 MG-O Oakington
Sgt B G W Balster 2318 Hamburg Crashed at base on return
Sergeant G Breedon
Flight Sergeant J Gilmore
Sergeant W V J Gould
Sergeant R Hutton
Sergeant R Norris
Pilot Officer W E Stenhouse

2/08/1943 3/08/1943 2/3.08.43
Sergeant A S Biffin 214 Stirling III EF409 BU-V Chedburgh
Came down in sea off Wilhelmshaven Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant C D Curtis Killed Becklingen War Cem Bomber Command
Sergeant J J Evans Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant A B Grainger PoW Bomber Command
Sergeant G D Loveridge Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant A A R McGarvey PoW Bomber Command
Sergeant J P Taylor Killed Runnymede Bomber Command

2/08/1943 3/08/1943 2/3.08.43
Pilot Officer C P Bailie 75 Stirling III EH928 AA-A Mepal

P/O C P Bailie 2314 Hamburg Crashed off Terschelling
Killed Lemvig, Denmark Bomber Command
Sergeant E F Hunting Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant J Isherwood Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant E Millward Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant T Purdie Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Sergeant W H Thompson Killed Runnymede Bomber Command
Flight Sergeant J Thomson Killed Runnymede Bomber Command

Regards

Alain57

[Tony Clifford]

Hi Alain

Thank you for that information. You are a star. The point I am trying to reach is that Leube made a mistake in identity and that he actually shot down a Lancaster Id W5000 QRB. I have seen this reported on other forums and indeed some relatives from the crew of W5000 have tried what I am doing. I do not know their results. I believe that Leube's claim for 3/8/43 was his first and he was a 19 year old rooky. Some of his other later claims have only been for a 4 engined bomber with no id. It seems that his claim for a Stirling may be wrong as all Stirlings missing on that night have been accounted for. I don't suppose there is anyway that I can prove this but it would be very helpful to know that the Lancaster W5000 was indeed shot down by a night fighter on its return to base and that it is a strong possibility. Do you have any opinion on this topic or does anybody else. Thanks Tony

[Rob Romero]

Misidentification of enemy aircraft types was quite common and some of the mistakes are difficult to fathom (an A6M2 Zero mistaken for a Bf 109 for instance); mistaking a Lanc for a Stirling at NIGHT is completely understanable especially if the conditions were far from perfect and one had to contend with return fire from the rear turret.