rotterdam records

[klaymann]

Are there any files/info from the rotterdam period of the blitzkreig that include the luftwaffe (esp the reccon units) .. my opa ( 3.(f)10 )was shot down ( survived) taken photo's of AA installations(ironically) over the bridges around rotterdam.

[Jaap Woortman]

Dear Klaymann,

The Studygroep Airwar 1939-1945 is compiling a 'Losslist Netherlands Sept. 3rd, 1939 - May 8th, 1945' including the Rotterdam area. But a plane from 3.(F)10 is not included. But we also have some 'missing links' concerning Do 17s. I assume the unit was flying with Do 17s? Please could you give some more data?

Jaap Woortman
Secr. Studygroup Airwar 1939-1945.

[klaymann]

To Jaap

Yes he was flying Do 17p ...I have seen his unit "tannenberg" as 3.(f)10 and been advised it could be 3.(h)10 what is the difference of (f) and (h) ?

The story he told was that their unit was assigned to take reccon pics of the AA around the bridges .. several planes had flown off before but never returned so he was called up to do a mission .. over the area the main camera malfunctioned so they had to come in low with a crewman taking photos out of the cockpit .. they took massive damage ( engine fire , crewman dead ) and described the plane looking like a sieve .. they managed to get clear and bail out and eventually return to their unit with the photos only to be told that after they didn't return another plane took off and got really good photos.

So going by his oral memory of the action , there must be several "lost" Do 17 around that time/area

I also found out that our family name has several versions !? .. so he could be Kurt Gustav Kwidor/jeidu/jedow?

hope this helps.

[Jaap Woortman]

Thanks for the information.
(F) means Fernaufklärung and (H) means Heeresaufklärung.
Indeed several planes of Aufklärungsunits have been shot down over the Rotterdam area. But also in areas between de Dutch-German border and the Rotterdam area. Have you any idea about the day?
The recce units have not only been flying with Do 17s. We have crashes from Ju 88s, Do 215s and He 111s of (F) recce units.

Jaap

[Laurent Rizzotti]

To summarize the difference between (F) and (H) recon units, the (F) did long-range recon (as their name said, Fern = away in German) and the (H) did tactical recon around the frontline for the army.

At least that was what they were designef for, real use may have changed.

Also in 1940 (H) units were usually under command of Army units (for example a (H) Staffel was attached to each Panzerdivision) while (F) units remained under Luftwaffe command.

[Jaap Woortman]

I have checked some publications and files and found the following Order of Battle of May 9th, 1940 for the Aufkl. Gruppe 10 of the Luftwaffe for the operations against the Netherlands.

Heeresgruppe B
a. 6.Armee
3.(F)/10 at Oberbruch-Süd with Do 17P/M. Reg. T1

b. 18.Armee
Koluft: Stab AufklGr.10

X.Armeekorps
1.(H)/10 at Coesfeld with 9/8 Hs 126B. Reg. T1

XXVI.Armeekorps
2.(H)/10 near Euskirchen with 9/0 Hs 126B. Reg. T1

Oberbruch is near Heinsberg in Nordrhein-Westfalen(Germany)

Jaap

[klaymann]

To all .. Danke

Well the (F) would match with him based in narvik doing reccon over england during B.O.B period..

Sorry Jaap ,I don't have a date of the action , this was all orally recounted after me pestering him all the time about what he went thru.

p.s..."Oberbruch is near Heinsberg in Nordrhein-Westfalen(Germany)" ... how far from the front/border is this place? .( sorry , I'm in New Zealand).

p.s.s.. This part seems easier to work with compared to me trying to find the fighter unit ( bf109 .. east front) that he was transfered to after main B.O.B period ended....

Klay.

[Jaap Woortman]

Dear Klaymann,

Oberbruch was 150 km, about 100 miles, from Rotterdam.
Strange is that 6.Armee, 3.(F)/10 was supporting this unit, was operating in northern Belgium and that 18.Armee was responsable for the operation in the Netherlands. Rotterdam is a big harbour in the Netherlands. So a unit for the Belgium theatre was operating in the Dutch battle area. I know that the Luftwaffe was flexible, but so flexible? Was it possible that 3.(F)/10 has been operating over Antwerp and that Rotterdam and Antwerp have been mixed-up?

Jaap

[Pieter H]

All,
Jaap is correct in that there are no records of (F)/10 activities or flights over Holland in May 1940.
However, maybe the following can bring some more clarity into this matter:
Most (all?) Do-17 or Do-215 long distance reccon planes shot down over Holland in these days belonged to either the Auflklaerungs-Staffel Oberkommando der Luftwaffe (or I.(F)/A.St.O.d.L, code T5) or the Aufklaerungs-Staffel of Flieger Division 7. (A.St. Fl.Div.7, code 4Q). However, one of the Do-17Z or Do-215 planes of the latter unit that was shot down close to Dordrecht (some 20 km south of Rotterdam) clearly had the Tannenberg emblem on the nose, which has always wondered me. But the code of 4Q+KH clearly linked it to A.St.Fl.Div.7.
It now seems plausible that at least a number of planes of (F)/10 had been detached to this unit, which had been formed specially to cover all transport units and the 22.Luftlande Division that were taking part in the airborne operations at The Hague and Rotterdam.

From the description it seems that the flight you refer to took place later on the day, after some of the earlier flights were shot down at Dordrecht and Woerden. However, I have no indication of its crash site.

Pieter

[klaymann]

All,
You guys a really cool to have provided all this info ... when I refer to the Do-17p that Opa flew with 3.(f)10 it's based on a photo in (poland 1939).
Unfortunatly he was not pacific on the dornier models he flew with the tannenberg unit thru the west/north areas of battle.

P.S. Jaap , I do remember the area as Rotterdam as after hearing it , all I could think of was "rotten rams(sheep)" ... sounds creepy but thats how it stuck in my head .. this is after all 12 yrs ago...

P.P.S .. Pieter .. is there a photo/link of the "Tannenberg" Dornier wreckage you mentioned ?

Klay.