Information about Bf 110E 4502

[AFROBINSON808]

On the Preserved Axis Aircraft website, the site claims that a Bf 110E, serial number 4502, started life as a Bf 110C, serial 3084.

Anyone know if this information is correct?

[Jim P.]

That WNr. 3084 was re-built as WNr. 4502 would have been quite a feat given that there is a reported loss for the former over 2 months after the latter.

Bf 110C-4, 3084, Stotz, Uffz. Erwin, , , , Zerst.Sch. 2, , , , , 21-May-42, Crew injured in Notlandung due to engine trouble., , Lfl.3/Deutschland, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/772, Flzg.Unfälle bei Schulen und usw., p.153; BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/782, Flzg.Unfälle bei Schulen und usw., p.211, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324, Fl.Pl. Memmingen, 70%, H, Bf Uffz. Emil Berner, , Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Dec-39

Bf 110E-2, 4502, Groß, Uffz. Emil, , Z., 6.(Z), JG 5, , M8+ZE, CD+MV, , 11-Mar-42, Reported lost due to Luftkampf with I-18. Crew returned WIA., , Lfl.5/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IX.3, p.503; Mombeek, Eismeerjäger, V.I, p.289; Valtonen, LW Pohjoinen Sivusta, p.365; J&P, Jan/Feb-94, p.19-23, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.325, Urdosero, 40km westlich Murmaschi, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Gerhard Sarodnik, , MIAG at Braunschweig in Oct-41

[AFROBINSON808]

Do you think the 3084, then, could refer to 4502's construction number?

[Don Pearson]

Mark Sheppard wrote in 2007;
"The only thing I can add is that Bf110 E-2 W.Nr4502 (CD+MV) coded M8+ZE of Stab/ZG76 and 6./(Z)/JG5 was recovered from Russia in 1992. On looking at the airframe in greater detail it was found the airframe was constructed on 3084, a C model."

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archiv...p?t-10268.html

and in 2003
"Bf110 E-2 W.Nr 4502 was remanufacturered from an incomplete airframe. In this case it was Bf110 C W.Nr3084."

http://wwiiairwaroverthenorth.yuku.c...et#.VJoo5cCcBg

Don

[AFROBINSON808]

Both of those sources also claim that "a whole group in the 30xx, 31xx Bf 110s were not completed and most likely upgraded and completed in a new batch of E models."

If that's true, what is it supposed to mean?

[AFROBINSON808]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that 3084 was not rebuilt as Bf 110E 4502, but the loss report for 3084 that Jim P. mentioned is accurate?

[Merlin]

the history of Bf 110C-2 WNr. 3084:
test flown at Augsburg 21.12.39
two times mentioned in Flugbuchs of crews from 2./ZG 52 01.40 and 03.40
overhaul or repair at Augsburg 04.42
lost by ZS 2 as detailed in post #2

The statement from post #13 "a whole group in the 30xx, 31xx Bf 110s were not completed and most likely upgraded and completed in a new batch of E models."
is fully wrong. There are flying histories and loss reports for nearly all of these numbers.

The number "3084" found on the wreck of WNr. 4502 is most likely part of the construction number or a component serial number.

Merry Christmas to everybody

[markjsheppard]

Hi AFROBINSON

All I can add is that this was 1992. I agree my statement indicating other aircraft were upgraded was wrong. It was the information I had at the time speaking to other researchers and referring to books etc.

As the the 3084. This was clearly painted on the port wing root area of the recovered airframe. Whether it was a component or not I do not know but to me at the time showed a previous W.Nr. At the time I found no loss for 3084.

1992 everything was done with physical research- travelling to the IWM and elsewhere and lots of letters and phone calls. Nowadays you can write a post and get all the information in 24 hours when originally it took 2 months.

regards

Mark