8./JG 2 Staffelkapitän

[Frank Olynyk]

Thanks Larry. The British and the Americans assigned unique numbers to enlisted men at least by the time of World War 1. And after WW1 both countries assigned unique numbers to all officers. One's number only changed if one moved from enlisted to officer. Interesting that the Germans didn't do this.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Larry deZeng]

The common thread, Frank, seems to have been casualty identification and reporting, hospitalization and graves registration.

Yep, I still remember my service number as well as I remember my SSN. The only thing that changed was the two-letter prefix: US to RA to AF from 1957 to 1968.

L.

[Kapper]

Thanks Matti

Your confirmation of EKMs has reassured me that I’m on the right track.

All,

To take another direction, it’s interesting that Vowinkel has 55564/1 which puts him in 1./ZG2 around March/April 1940. I never knew that, though I notice in Larry’s and Doug’s latest release that they now have Vowinkel in I./ZG2 in March 1940 and in a separate entry have a Oblt Vohwinkel as unhurt after a belly landing on 09.06.40. An uncommon name therefore one could surmise that they are the same. On this basis that would make Vowinkel Staka of 1./ZG 2 after Ettling transferred out to JG2 to at least 09.06.40.

However, this is in conflict with John Vasco’s Zerstorer book which has an Oblt Fritz Ludders as Staka 1./ZG 2 when he was killed in a landing accident on 20.05.40 and was replaced by Oblt Gerhard Goetz to be StaFu 1./ZG2. Goetz was Tech Offr of Stabschwarm I./ZG2 who in turn was replaced by Oblt Reinhold Messner. In another twist, Doug and Larry’s latest work has Goetz as Staka 3./ZG2 from 3.40 – 25.08.40 then in a second entry has him as a POW 05.08.40 as Staka of 1./ZG2. From this, one can only assume that Goetze transferred from 3 Staffel to 1 Staffel on 25.07.40 – much later than John Vasco has on 20.05.40! Which would make one think that Vowinkel was still in command of 1./ZG2 until 25.07.40 !

However, this raises many more questions? If Vowinkel was still in I./ZG2 on the 09.06.40, where was he on 20.05.40. He wasn’t A/Gpkdr as Hptm Gentzen was active until KIA 28.05.40. Maybe Ludders was StaFu not StaKa? Also, was Goetze StaKa 3./ZG 2 or in Stabstaffel as the Tech Offr on 20.05.40?

The other possibility is that Vowinkel left 1./ZG2 before 20.05.40 and that the Vohwinkel unhurt in the accident on 09.06.40 was another person. I think this being another person is unlikely as it’s such an uncommon name? Again, another possibility is that the date of the accident maybe wrong. In my notes I have Ludders becoming Staka on 10.05.40 (unfortunately I didn’t record the source and cannot find it again) – could Vowinkel’s accident been on 09.05.40 (not 09.06.40?) and that Ludders took over as Stafu not Staka at that time?

I note that John Vasco is a member – maybe he can put his input to clarify this.

Regards,

Craig…

[Kapper]

Larry,

I understand. When I first started researching the Luftwaffe as a youngster, I made a lot of notes without referencing the source (It’s a hobby to me – I’m not a professional researcher). Being on the other side of the world, accessing primary sources is not easy, so I tend to rely on secondary sources (books / internet etc). However, using such sources has created many questions (and conflict in data) so I began taking notes of the source, but this has slowed me down considerably. Also, it’s all became on big mess with referenced and unreferenced data (which I’m trying to correct as I go) therefore I’m currently trying to put it all into some logical order. A very time consuming task, so I imagine that the task you and Doug have set yourself would not be easy.

Anyway, thanks for your efforts. I find Doug and your work a very useful source, so keep up the good work.

Regards,

Craig…

[Larry deZeng]

Originally Posted by Kapper

Larry,

I understand. When I first started researching the Luftwaffe as a youngster, I made a lot of notes without referencing the source (It’s a hobby to me – I’m not a professional researcher). Being on the other side of the world, accessing primary sources is not easy, so I tend to rely on secondary sources (books / internet etc). However, using such sources has created many questions (and conflict in data) so I began taking notes of the source, but this has slowed me down considerably. Also, it’s all became on big mess with referenced and unreferenced data (which I’m trying to correct as I go) therefore I’m currently trying to put it all into some logical order. A very time consuming task, so I imagine that the task you and Doug have set yourself would not be easy.

Anyway, thanks for your efforts. I find Doug and your work a very useful source, so keep up the good work.

Regards,

Craig…

Right on, Craig. It's like a 5,000 piece jigsaw puzzle of a 4 square mile section of open ocean. As you know, some 95% of the Luftwaffe's records were destroyed between August 1944 (the Potsdam raid that destroyed much of the archives there) and the first week of May 1945 when most of what was left was intentionally burned in compliance with Hermann Goering's long-standing orders. Only bits and pieces survived. That means we researchers are forced out of necessity to use the postwar published material and therein comes the rub. Veteran A says so-and-so was Staka while Veteran B says no, it was so-and-so. The only recourse seems to be the Karteikarten and/or the copied WASt resources in the French military archive. So unscrambling these Staka/Stafü conundrums for the fighter units where the positions changed with such frequency can be a tedious challenge but, with persistence, a rewarding one.

Larry

P.S. if BA-MA Freiburg ever relented, all 700,000 of those cards front and back would cost an estimated $700,000 U.S. for BA-MA's jobber, Selke, to copy. Definitely out of my reach!

[John Manrho]

I did quite some research into Maj. Günther Vowinckel, geb. 07.089.1912 Krefeld, as he was killed on 1.1.1945 during Bodenplatte. I have quite a number of documents and also a copy of his FB. Anyway, I can confirm he had EM 55564/1. From his Personalakte he was with I./ZG 2 from 31.3.1940 until 7.8.1940 and he flew 50 Feindflüge during this period. Not sure if he was Staffelkapitän but it seems highly likely.

Regards,

John.

[Adam]

For what it's worth, have you seen http://www.ww2.dk/misc/wastjg2.pdf

Doesn't really help with the formation but may be of interest anyway.

[Larry deZeng]

Interesting, Adam, interesting. This list looks very much like the sort of lists the French occupation people copied at WASt and are now in the French military museum in Paris. It's a good example of it.

L.