Mustangs lost over Hungary on 14 October 1944

[Boris Ciglic]

P-51 42-103351 of 2/Lt Raymond Mann was last seen between Budapest and Kecskemet, and P-51 43-24900 of 1/Lt Jack Houghton of 325.FG near Budapest, shortly after noon on 14 October 1944. Both men were later declared dead. Does anybody know the locations of their crashes.

Cheers,
Boris

[HGabor]

42-103351 ('VF * O') was lost in the Kecskemét(?), 43-24900 in the Tárnok area (No.74, 'Hope IV'). I have no more details.
Gabor

[Boris Ciglic]

Gabor,

Thanks a lot! Is this data confirmed from Hungarian sources or only from the MACR?

Boris

[Leendert]

Boris,

Perhaps this link provides a lead? See http://www.armyairforces.com/Unk-Cap...t-m103531.aspx

Regards,

Leendert

[Boris Ciglic]

What I'm trying to find out is the identity of US fighter which was reputedly shot down by kap. Gennadiy Shadrin of 117.GvIAP near Bela Crkva, east of Belgrade, Yugoslavia, on 14 October. Whilst returning from a patrol, he was vectored towards an unknown plane flying at altitude of 3.000 meters. He quickly caught up with it and recognized a Mustang with USAAF markings. The Soviet ground control suspected that the aircraft was recconoitering their positions and instructed him to force it to land. Despite some hand signs, wing waving and warning shots, American pilot did not respond and tried to flee in southern direction. It was then that commander of 10.GvShAD gen.maj. Andrej Vitruk ordered Shadrin to shot him down, which he did. American pilot bailed out, but his parachute failed to open and he fell near Bela Crkva. In order to hush up the incident, a Bf 109 was claimed instead and all involved ordered to keep quiet. From the 15.AF Mustangs lost that day, only the pilots of the two I asked for were reported dead, and according to MACR's they were last seen over Hungary, over 300km NW of Bela Crkva.

[Alex Smart]

Three were -
52FG - "VF-O" - 42-103351 - Mann +.
52FG - "QP-W" - 42-106816 - Leary pow.
325FG - "74" - 43-24900 - Houghton pow.( Not pow, FOD 15/10/45).

Alex

Ooops
Since found that 1Lt. Jack Houghton O-542201 MAACR 9193 was KIA.
Finding of Death date 15th October 1945, so not a POW.

[researcher111]

Boris and Alex Smart

Was no exactly like that . On Oc 14, 44 52 P-51 of 332nd FG left Ramitelli to escort 49th BW to Odertal refineries .Lt Rual Bell P-51B-10 100th FS 43-25073 bailed out
due what he later claimed to be a mechanical failure and was rescued by the Chetniks of D.Mihailovic . In reality he was shot down by Shadrin , upon returning
to his Sqd. December 44 while debfriefed by Intel in Bari he gave out questionable grounds as into the event.

Hope thats helps

[Alex Smart]

Re Bell. Zagreb, Yugoslavia

Escort to Blechamer, engine cut at 24000 ft, b/o and landed 15-20miles NE of the city ( 10 miles NE of Cazin, Yugoslavia ), rescued by partisans.

MACR 9140
Time given as 1125, a/c name "Peggins" serial number 43-25073.
Witness statement by 2Lt. Charles H. Duke. Dated same day (14th).
"At 1110hrs, I was flying No.2 position in counter yellow flight , when I noticed that the No. 4 man in the flight , F/O Bell seemed to be in trouble; he seemed unable to keep up with the rest.
I tried to contact F/O Bell by radio, but my radio was out.
About this time (1115) Bell's engine stopped altogether and he started to glide. Our altitude at the time was 20,000 feet, at a point 80 miles inland in Yugoslavia.
At 10,000 feet, Bell released his canopy and at about 6,000 feet he jumped, he appeared to be very low, about 1,500 feet when his chute opened. He was only in the air for a few seconds, and landed in a forest. His chute could be plainly seen in the tree tops.
I was unable to see whether or not F/O Bell was injured, because he was obscured by the trees.
Signed by Charles H. Duke 2nd Lt, Air Corps.".

Note that there is no mention in the report of any sighting of enemy aircraft or of any combat which I would have expected if Bell had been shot down, but perhaps damaged in earlier combat before 1110 hrs ? so possible.

On return to the 100th Bell claimed destroyed, an FW190 on the 31st March 1945, his only claim ?

Alex

[researcher111]

I gather you extracted your info from the Net / Trifold which is the MACR official
version. My info is from 332nd history book . Additionally the Russians seems to
confirm the same details . Check this just in case you can translate it :

http://airaces.narod.ru/all16/shadrin.htm

[Alex Smart]

No, the Witness statement is from the MACR, available on the "Fold 3" site.
Other details are also avaiable on the www.
Can't say I know the Net/Trifold site you mention.
Will look at the link you kindly provided.
Thank you
Alex

PS

QUOTE -"October 14, 1944 117th Guards IAP was moved to the Yugoslav air station "Red Crkva", and on this day the event occurred, which until now have not been reported in Soviet military history. Captain GA Shadrin shot down an American plane! In the morning, he is paired with Lieutenant EI Gorshenin flew for exploration in the area of ​​Batajnica. There's railway station train pilots found the enemy and fired his cannon. Immediately after landing Shadrin ordered again rise into the air, and immediately fly to the town of Bela Crkva, where at an altitude of 10OO meters appeared unidentified aircraft - intelligence.
Shadrin went to take off, and it was quickly put things on the radio on the plane potential adversary who has already flown over the airfield at Bela Crkva and approached the airfield of the 117th Guards IAP. What a surprise it was the pilot when he approached the intelligence officer, identified in him an American fighter P-51 "Mustang" with the identification signs the US Air Force. Gennady reported this to the command division, followed by a team from the American force to land at our airport. Shadrin approached close to the "Mustang" and the evolution of the aircraft ordered to follow him, but he continued to fly as if nothing had happened.
Then Gennady gave warning of all the nose of "American", demonstrating the seriousness of their intentions. In response, the "Mustang" spun around and started to go south to climb. Report this Shadrin has received an order from the KP to give another warning of all. The captain went up, and then to dive again made friends with the "Mustang" and let the "road" next to it. But the American pilot again did not react. Then Shadrin Vitruka received from direct and unequivocal command: "Beat it! If you do not have shells, go to the ram".
Meanwhile, the "Mustang" was already 2500 meters and continued to climb. Shadrin had no choice but to press the trigger. He made the sighting of all the fuselage, but the scout continued to fly further. Then Gennady released another turn, and "Mustang" fell into a nosedive. Immediately he flew with a lantern, and the pilot fell out of the cab. It would seem that everything was "normal" and the Americans have nothing to fear, but somehow have downed pilot parachute did not open. Shadrin with a bitter sense of duty watched the falling figure, until it hit the ground ...
According to US data, we can assume that the victim Captain GA Shadrin became the P-51B-10 from the 100th Squadron, 322nd Fighter Group US Air Force, which in that day was missing over Yugoslavia. It was the "jubilee" 500th sortie Gennady Shadrin and his 14th official victory, which also was the last, the 124th victory of the 117th Guards IAP in the war."

The Russian story just does not fit.
As it tells of the American pilots chute not opening, in which case the pilot would have not survived. While it is a fact that Bell did and returned to his unit to score the victory I noted above in 1945.