Ju 52 - WNr 7674

[RolandF]

Can somebody shed some light on information I have about a Ju 52/3m - most likely a g8e - for July 31st, 1944, both near Vouziers northeast of Reims, Champagne in France:
The 1st listing speaks about damage by enemy fire with its crew Ff Ogfr Josef Rinkert(inj), Bf Uffz Medardus Konik(+), Bm Ogfr Robert König(inj), Bs Fw Heinz Lange(inj), belonging to 3./Luftverkehrsgruppe Rangsdorf;
the 2nd listing is about a complete loss during a transport flight with its crew Ff Oblt Wilhelm Breimer(inj), Ff Uffz Günther Fischer(inj), Bf Uffz Ewald Sure(inj), BP Fw Karl Schmidt(+), supposedly belonging to 9./NJG 4 with code(sic!) A7+WK.
A7 belongs to LVGr Rangsdorf, so obviously two incidents have been mixed up, maybe including a Ju 88 from NJG 4.
Does anybody have correct data? Thanks in advance

kind regards
RolandF

[RT]

Roland,
NVM, confirms plane Wn, nd Kz,a you named them, unit given as NJG4, casualties for the NJG4
Breimer wilhelm oblt f v-sw 021121-Beerfelden/Odenwald-214804/1
Fischer günther uffz f v-sw 051220-Görlitz-53412/159b
Schmidt karl fw bm t 101215-Tübingen-II,JG77/43
Sure ewald uffz bf v-sw 180813-Windebruch/Westf,-214804/4
Flying as "Fl.Gäste"


For the LVGr. flying as the "crew".


König medardus uffz bf t
König robert oge bm v
Langenfeld heinz fw bs v
Rinkert josef oge f v
If the first data are coming from the NVM , crew names of the LVGr. came from Matti Salonen, so I hv to decline any nd all responsability on the "Medardus"
Rémi

[RolandF]

Thank you Remi,
so this seems to be one single incident with the complete loss of the Ju 52 WNr 7674 A7+WK from 3./LVGr, carrying its crew of four together with 4 passengers, consisting of crew(s) and ground personell of NJG 4. Medardus Konik/König is not clear yet. Btw "Medardus" is an old french name

regards
RolandF

[RT]

Btw "Medardus" is an old french name

Really ?? Right we hv a St-Medard here, nd if it's raining that day, things go wrong for a while after ...

Could we hv a look at that listing you are ref. to ?? Or at least send it to cdts@cdts.fr
Rémi

[RolandF]

Saint Medard de Noyon. Obsolete and abolished because being responsible for bad weather ;-)
My source is Balss' Loss Lists, taken from GQM and NVM files. Listed just as I wrote it. Not free from mistakes and misinterpretations. The case of WNr 7674 proves it.
The corrected entry for WNr 7674 according to Balss' data would be as follows:
WNr 7674, StKz GG+FV, Ju 52/3m, A7+LK, 3./LVGr Rangsdorf, 31.07.1944 Absturz 100% nach Feindbeschuß bei Transportflug bei Vouziers nö Reims
Crew:
Ff Ogfr Josef Rinkert verw
Bf Uffz Medardus Konik +
Bm Ogfr Robert König verw
Bs Fw Heinz Lange verw
Passengers (all from 9./NJG 4?):
Ff Oblt Wilhelm Breimer verw
Ff Uffz Günther Fischer verw
Bf Uffz Ewald Sure verw
BP Fw Karl Schmidt + (ground crew)

Any corrections are welcome

[joel husson]

hello,
according to the information which I have and according to the book of Pierre Roger "the air war in the Ardennes vol III"
07/31/1944 Ju52 wknr7674 A7 + LK 9./NJg4 Olizy-Primate (08). Crew: fw karl schmitt, killed; oblt Wilhelm Breimer (9./NJG4), Ewald Sure, Günther Fischer, injured. old registration GG + FV.
and the
August 28, 1944 Ju52 wknr? registration? three-engine shot down north of Douzy, Francheval triangle, Villers-cernay-Pouru aux bois (08) claimed by Captain Arthur Jeffrey 434FS / 479FG.
alas, I don't have more info
cdlt
Joel

[joel husson]

correction :
Olizy-Primat (08) south-south-east of Vouziers
cdlt
Joël