3./TG 1

[DDT]

Hi,

The Staffel lost two Ju 52 in the night of 6/7 june 1944. The first, flown by Uffz. Ludwig Hähnlein, was shot by a Mosquito. Not only was the crew KIA but also the 16 passengers from JG 1, most likely ground personal. I've checked the books written by Mombeek and Prien over JG 1, but the loss lists do not give those of the ground personal. So I'm looking for someone who can provide the names of these 16 men.
The second one, also shot down by a Mosquito, was flown by Fw. Heinz Stiegen (although I can not find a Heinz Stiegen on the VDK-site). The other crew members were:
Hptm. Johannes von Düsterlohe, Ofw. Albert Dieter, Fw. Franz Sorgenfrei and Ogefr. Herbert Franz. I am missing their function on board, hope someone does have these. Also thx in advance and kind regards.

Dirk

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Dear Dirk,

Checking Michael Balss's loss list, there is no further information regarding the two losses you're asking for.

I also notice that the same night - also shot down by an unspecified nightfighter - there is a 3./TG 4 machine shot down with "15 Bodenpersonal" from ZG 1, 8 kilometres east of Dreux. This was Ju 52/3m g14e W.Nr. 640750 "G6+OL", piloted by Fw. Erich Werner. All aboard KIA.

Could there be a confusion between this machine and the one piloted by Uffz. Ludwig Hähnlein as I have no further information for JG 1 personal being aboard ?

Sincerely,

[Matti Salonen]

I have slightly different data in my database:
1944-06-06, 3./TG 1, Ju 52/3m g8e, 501380, 1Z+JL, Villers, 60 (6?) km nördlich Coulommiers, 30 km östlich Paris
Flugzeugführer Hprm von Düsterlho, Johannes, +
Flugzeugführer Fw Stiegen, Heinz, +
Beobachter Ofw Dieter, Albert, +
Bordfunker Fw Sorgenfrei, Franz, +
Bordwart Obgfr Franz, Herbert, +
Fluggast Stgfr Beyer, Fritz, +
Fluggast Gefr Birkner, Günter, +
Fluggast Obgfr Bätjer, Hans, +
Fluggast Uffz Hanisch, Julius, +
Fluggast Obgfr Otto, Siegfried, +
Fluggast Obgfr Peters, Gerhard, +
Fluggast Uffz Rohleder, Siegfried, +
Fluggast Obgfr Schmidt, Heinrich, +
Fluggast Obgfr Schmidt, Johann, +
Fluggast Obgfr Schreiber, Friedrich, +
Fluggast Obgfr Schweissguth, Ewald, +
Fluggast Lt Sommer, Wolfgang, +
Fluggast Uffz Thomas, Joachim, +
Fluggast Fw Thümler, Paul, +
Fluggast Obgfr Uhlich, Werner, +
Fluggast Flg Zander, Leo, +
Absturz infolge Nachtjägerbeschuß auf Überführungsflug. Bruch 100 %. Fluggäste von I./JG 1.

1944-06-07, 3./TG 1, Ju 52/3m g10e, 180538, 1Z+KL, 12 km südwestlich Coulommiers
Flugzeugführer Uffz Hähnlein, Ludwig, +
Beobachter Obgfr Riechmann, Friedrich, +
Bordfunker Gefr Stollberg, Heinz, +
Bordwart Uffz Körner, Herbert, +
Absturz infolge Nachtjägerbeschuß. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

[DDT]

Hello Matti,

Thx for your quick reply. So it was Hptm von Düsterlho who was transporting the personal of I./JG 1. Indeed different with the source I have.

Hello Marc-André,

Thx for your reply, Matti resolved the issue. You are mentioning Michael Balss lost list. Did he publish a book about these losses? All I'm aware off are his 2 books about the "nachtjäger" - losses (as I do own them)
The source I have says the loss of 3./TG 4 occured on 7/6/1944, shot down by Mustangs and no indication of they were transporting personal of ZG 1.
Does Balss also specify the names of the "Bodenpersonal".

kind regards,

Dirk

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by DDT

Hello Matti,

Thx for your quick reply. So it was Hptm von Düsterlho who was transporting the personal of I./JG 1. Indeed different with the source I have.

Hello Marc-André,

Thx for your reply, Matti resolved the issue. You are mentioning Michael Balss lost list. Did he publish a book about these losses? All I'm aware off are his 2 books about the "nachtjäger" - losses (as I do own them)
The source I have says the loss of 3./TG 4 occured on 7/6/1944, shot down by Mustangs and no indication of they were transporting personal of ZG 1.
Does Balss also specify the names of the "Bodenpersonal".

kind regards,

Dirk

Hi there Dirk,

Michael makes his Lw loss list available as an .xls data sheet running from 1930 up to 1945. A highly recommended work which can be - here thanks to Matti - be easily updated.

Cheers
Marc

[DDT]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the reply. In xls, that’s what I use too. I’ve looked a bit further in the book (point blank by F.Trendle) and according to him the members where transported by a Ju 52 of Verb.St.Lfl.Kdo. 3 #7324 and flown by Stabsfeldwebel Hermann Wittig. All on board were killed when they collided with a Ju 88 - Stab./ZG 1 and crashed into the sea for the coast of Cazaux some 65 km SW Bordeaux, France. The passengers belonged to 7./ZG 1.
So the 2 sources are different. The question is which Ju 52 was it?
Perhaps Matti can shed a light on this. As you mentioned his input is always of great value. Have a nice weekend.

Dirk

[Matti Salonen]

I have the following:
1944-06-07, 3./TG 4, Ju 52/3m g14e, 640750, G6+OL, 8 km östlich Dreux, 73 km westsüdwestlich Paris
Flugzeugführer Fw Werner, Erich, +
Bordfunker Gefr Di Lenardo, Ernst, verletzt
Bordwart Stfw Hutz, Johann, verletzt
Bordschütze Uffz Vetter, Helmut, +
Fluggast Gefr Becker, Ewald, +
Fluggast Uffz Beuermann, Theodor, +
Fluggast Uffz Dolata, Franz, +
Fluggast Uffz Ehm, Paul, +
Fluggast Fw Haspel, Ferdinand, +
Fluggast Gefr Kienle, Ludwig, +
Fluggast Fw Koller, Josef, +
Fluggast Obgfr Köhmstedt, Hans, +
Fluggast Obgfr Reischl, Johann, +
Fluggast Obgfr Rolf, Friedrich, +
Fluggast Obgfr Ruppert, Josef, +¨
Fluggast Uffz Schaack, Gerhard, +
Fluggast Uffz Schroers, Ernst, +
Fluggast Ofw Wiemer, Bruno, +
Fluggast Uffz , +
Absturz nach Luftkampf mit Jäger. Bruch 100 %. Fluggäste von 7./ZG 1.

1944-06-07, Verbindungsstaffel/Lfl.Kdo.3, Ju 52/3m g8e, 7324, Cazaux, 65 km südwestlich Bordeaux
Flugzeugführer Stfw Wittig, Hermann, +
Bordfunker Ofw Löchel, Walter, +
Bordwart Stfw Kernbach, Erich, +
Bordschütze Uffz Vey, Hans, +
Absturz ins Meer. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

[DDT]

Matti,

Thx a lot for clearing this out.
As always very very much appriciated.
Stay safe and kind regards,

Dirk