Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24th July 2021, 06:02
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,194
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Bf 109G 20 mm ammo capacity

Some sources say that the maximum ammo capacity of the central 20 mm gun of the Bf 109G was 250 rounds. However, some Finnish references state that due to feed problems like broken belts, only 130-150 round belts were used. Is there anything on this in German sources? If the same problem was noted in Germany too, why wasn't it solved in a way to exploit full capacity?
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24th July 2021, 10:44
Denniss Denniss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 145
Denniss is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109G 20 mm ammo capacity

200 rounds capacity is stated in the manuals
135 rounds is for gondola guns
it's possible the Finns used less ammo due to arctic weather conditions, having a safety margin or to reduce weight/ammo consumption?
Noticed they also used less MG ammo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th July 2021, 14:29
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,194
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf 109G 20 mm ammo capacity

The Finnish source (a book on 20 mm guns in Finnish service) states that the reason was reliability, not saving. And nothing to do with Arctic since it was around the year practice apparently.
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th July 2021, 18:05
Broncazonk's Avatar
Broncazonk Broncazonk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 483
Broncazonk is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109G 20 mm ammo capacity

Gunther Rall spoke on camera about 20 mm link reliability (and the lack thereof.) The interview was on US television (years ago) and it may be on youtube. (I will try to track it down.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=STFdRrWBW2w

I *think* Lipfert talked about it in his book as well.

Bronc
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th July 2021, 19:03
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,194
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf 109G 20 mm ammo capacity

In that video Rall refers to the wing cannon, not the central cannon. I will have to check the book, but it was, I recall, that full belt was heavy enough to cause it to break when pulled by the feed under high g. The question is: Why there was no belt-booster in the belt container to compensate for the pull.
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26th July 2021, 10:54
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,194
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf 109G 20 mm ammo capacity

Here is what the Finnish source states:"Regarding the reliability of the MG 151/20, a memo dated July 1943 stated that there are no complaints as to the gun itself, because the most common problems are the ammunition and belt. There several cases reported in Finland in which the cartridge case had sheared in two in the chamber or the extractor had ripped a piece off the rim. The suspected reason being soundly the weakness of the steel used for cartridge cases. Another mode of failure was breaking of the belt. It was thought to be caused by too a heavy belt when loaded to the full 230 rounds. In thesecases the belt typically broke at half-length. The memo contained information, according to which Germans were loading the Bf 109G with only approx. 130 rounds. Similar problems were reported on the MG 17. To prevent belt breakages it was instructed that belt containers be equipped with movable wooden strakes. Despite these it became a regular Finnish practice to load the container with only 130 founds with a further 25 rounds in the feed chute... "
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I./ & IV./JG51 losses, Velikije Luki, 11.1942 - 01.43 Evgeny Velichko Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 9 4th August 2013 23:20
Question about octane fuel requirements for DB601A and DB601N engines for the Bf109E Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 14 13th October 2012 08:47
FW190a-3 /A4 AGr123 in France 1943 1944. Eric Larger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 16 12th June 2011 10:29
Me 109F development Franek Grabowski Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 39 5th July 2008 22:48
Awaited, 1945 Luftwaffe Fighter units evolution ? O.Menu Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 9 6th July 2005 14:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net