Lt Harald Gebhardt VS claims

[focusfocus]

Hello

I "have" a problem with two of his claims

04/04/1943:
1 Spit 35km N.W. Bayeux 13h41
1 Spit 35km N.W. Bayeux 13h51
source Mathews/Foreman

1 Spit 35km N.W. Bayeux 13h41
1 Spit S.W. Grün du Breuil !!???/N. Rouen
source T.Woods

2 claims in the same place but one hour ten apart!! (Mathews)

An unknown place (Grün du Breuil l!!!!) Woods

What are the versions of J.Prien and Mombeeck?

Michel

[Laurent Rizzotti]

According to JG 26 story by Don Caldwell, I./JG 2 first intercepted a RAF raid on Caen airfield, then joined other German units later to attack US bombers returning from a raid on Paris suburbs.

German claims of this day seems to confirm the hour difference:
_ 2./JG 2 claimed 2 Spitfires N Cherbourg shortly after 1000 hrs (vs 504 Sqn Spitfires on ASR escort, 1 shot down, 1 damaged)
_ 3./JG 27, 2./JG 2 and 11./JG 2 claimed 4 Spitfires N Caen between 1328 and 1341 hrs (against RAF 11 Group Ramrod 51/II, RAF 2 Group on Carpiquet airfield, 2 Spitfires shot down)
_ JG 2 and JG 26 pilots claimed 4 B-17s and 9 Spitfires between 1430 and 1500 hrs between Rouen and over the Channel (against US bombers and RAF escorts, 4 B-17s and 7 Spitfires lost)

So I would say that Mathews/Foreman are probably wrong.

As for the location "SW Grün du Breuil", I think it is a badly written form of "St Ouen du Breuil", a village exactly north of Rouen.

According to https://francecrashes39-45.net/rech_avion.php all seven Spitfires fell in the area north of Rouen. One claim by Lt Hoppe of 5./JG 26 was made over the Channel and is so overclaim, leaving 8 claims for 7 losses between Rouen and Dieppe, not a bad score.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Michel

The second claim by Gebhart is listed by Mathews/Foreman as 14.51H in their book (NOT 13.51H!!)

The place is obviously wrong, but Mombeek has the same place as Laurent and feels very accurate!

I can also clearly understand how the mistake by Johannes and John was made.

Cheers
Stig

[focusfocus]

Laurent

Claims between 13h28/13h41 =5 Spits,not 4
JG27 (Von Lieres 1)
2/JG2(Gebhardt 1)
11/JG2 (Gratz 2)
11/JG2 (Behrendt 1)

Stig

Oups!wrong touch,obviously it's 14h51,hence the interval of one hour ten!

"You can understand the error of J. and J".....that is to say?

Michel

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by focusfocus

"You can understand the error of J. and J".....that is to say?

Michel

When one is compiling such an enormous amount of data, as is done in their four vol set,
it is so easy to do what I call short cuts, ie you copy one line to the next one.
Your intention is to rewrite the necessary stuff on the next line, but then you fail to correct one of
the items.
Ain't no proof that is what happened here, but I think so.
Only Johannes himself can say what really happened....

Cheers
Stig