A ditched B-24 16 August 1944 in the Adriatic

[Russell]

Hello All,

The 332nd FG Mission Reports for August 1944 have a record of their escort sortie on 16 August 1944, it reports that they saw a B-24 ditched at 44⁰ 35’N 13⁰ 04’ E 60-65km NE Ravenna at 1245, with crew memebers swimming, no dinghys seen. They circled to 1330 when Spitfires took over. Any one know who the aircraft and crew were? The relevant ASR squadrons do not report picking up any one on that date in the Adriatic, the two B-24 losses I have both went into Switzerland.

Regards

Russell

[Revi16]

Maybe the date was wrong.

https://www.aviationarchaeology.com/dbSearchAFMACR.asp

440817 07679 B-24J 42-78484_726BS 451BG 15 Olds, John H {41.21N-16.40E}
_
440817 07980 B-24G 42-78386_515BS 376BG 15 Westby, Morton K {44.50N-25.20E}_

[Russell]

Hi Revi16,

Thats a possibility but I do not believe so as the mission report correctly notes the details of the B-24 hit by Flak over the target at Friedrichshafen, whereas the two losses you note for the 17th they went to Rumania. Mission report also notes the details of a loss the 332nd suffered, and they did not lose any aircraft on the 17th. I suspect I know who the two Spitfires were, they reported no sightings at all. I shall try the NARA casualty database.

Thanks for the response.

Russell

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Russel, could you please write here the part of the report descriding this B-24 ? I am especially interested to see if it includes both location descriptions (44⁰ 35’N 13⁰ 04’ E 60-65km NE Ravenna) or only the longitude/latitude and you added the direction from Ravenna.

I have a number of RAF ORBs for Spitfire squadrons in Italy for August 1944, but found no reference to this in them so far.

Of the two losses suffered by 15th Air Force that day, both damaged by Flak over the target, one landed in Switzerland and the other was abandonned on the Swiss shore of Lake Constance. All airmen landed in Switzerland but the aircraft was reported to have crashed in Germany. As there is no KU attached to the MACR, I wonder if the bomber did not actually crash in the lake. As the MACR reported that the aircraft was seen leaving formation under escort by four P-51s, I wonder if this is not the B-24 that was seen "ditching" by the 332nd FG, but at a totally different location.

In this case, there would be no Spitfires in the area, but there could be have been Swiss aircraft. The other B-24 that landed at Dubendorf was intercepted and escorted by a Swiss C-36.

[Buckeye30]

A B-24G 42-78086 from the 739BS/454BG was salvaged on the 16 Aug. Might be worth checking ? From their inventory but no details.


Regards
Nick

[Laurent Rizzotti]

454th BG was not a part of 55th Bomber Wing so was not flying the mission escorted by 332nd BG on 16 August 1944 (and did not fly any mission that day).

[Rottler]

Hello Laurent,

to your post #4:
according to the file KU 2765 the B-24 41-28904 crashed pilotless at 11.45 hrs on the north-site of Öhningen, 10 km south-west of Radolfzell in German territory.
The Capt Roberts crew parachuted and landed in the river Rhine near Stein am Rhein, Switzerland (source: www.warbird.ch).

Regards
Leo

[Alex Smart]

Several SAAF Liberators were lost during this time period, maybe it was one of those ?

[Russell]

Hi all

The mission report gives latitude longitude only, in two seperate paragraphs which match exactly with each other. I added the distance from Ravenna after finding the exact spot on Google Earth. I would post an extract if I knew how. I have copies of all the Spitfire ORBS in the Med, and I even checked the Mustang units and even the Hurricane unit. The two Spitfire 8s from 241 Sqn were scrambled at 1310 to search for a dinghy reported at 0945 35 miles at 005 degrees from Rimini. MT 634 Lt R V Lyon SAAF and JF 395 PO M Freeman, landed at 1450.

That isnt particularly close and reported far too early, but I have not found anything else.

I am surprised there isnt a MACR that I can find as ditching that far north and that far out to sea with no dinghys sighted for 45 minutes would lead to the conclusion most of the crew did not survive. Thats why is an interesting matter to attempt to solve.

Even the Int/Op summs are no help as for this day, the only day I can think of for the whole war they omit listing any casualties. On the film I have via Frank Olynyk, somebody - at the time presumeably, has hand written in the two losses from the 465th as well as a the 332nd FG P-51 that was lost. No other losses are mentioned.

Cheers

Russell

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

I will comment your phrase "That isnt particularly close and reported far too early, but I have not found anything else."

For me E Ravenna or N Rimi is roughly the same sea area. Maybe 241 Sqn pilots were sent closer of the coast as the dinghy may move in this dimension, and then will search more east.
As for the time, according to the three US MACR available, both B-24s were last seen around 1130 hrs heading for Switzerland and the P-51 was lost on the return leg at 1230 hrs at Miane, in Trevise area. So the formation should have reached the area where they saw a B-24 ditching around 1300 hrs. Is it possible that 241 Sqn kept an alert pair to react to any emergency reported by the 15th Air Force ? In this case, they were very fast to react.

The fact that the lat/lon are given twice in the report probably confirm the numbers, as do the fact that the 241 pilots were sent there. I can't find any other aircraft or ship lost that may have required a dinghy search in the area.

In 1944, the usage of MACR was routine, and I have so far not found a case when a MACR should have been produced and was not (contrary to what happens often in 1942 and early 1943). Still a B-24 could have been lost with a MACR, if the crew were all rescued from the sea by Allied forces. But there is no trace of rescue either in the available documents.

My guess at this time is that the report by 332nd FG of a B-24 ditching in Adriatic was wrong, and no B-24 was lost there. Still they saw something and 241 Sqn pilots were sent to investigate.