Claim for Joseph Goetz 122269 Pilot KIA P-51 43-12469

[Snautzer]

Gotz was KIA 21-03-1944 1.2 km southwest of Bourmegeau (21 km SE of La Roche-sur-Yon,
Now in KUJ-761 is stated by Jager. But the eyewitness Pierce Winningham McKennon make in his report IN MACR 3383 pg 3 no mention of this. Reading it i think it is possible. High dive on tail end Charly.
From MACR:
"On March 21, 1944; Rodeo to Libourne, when F/O Joseph Geets was lost, I was flying as "Greenbelt, Green Three". I had just joined up with two other boys from another section, having lost mine due to enemy action. We were flying on the deck, after having shot up an enemy airdrome, when I noticed the aircraft on my left pull up slightly and appear to stop in mid-air. This airplane was "WD-1", which was being flown by F/O Geets. I heard him say something but could not understand what it was. I then called to the other man that was with me to turn around and go back. It was just as we were turning that I saw F/O Geets's aircraft hit the ground. It did not burn but was very badly torn up. Both wings were severed from the airplane, the fuselage was lying on its back, and the engine was out. It is my belief that no one could have lived after crashing in this manner."


Is there a claim to be tied in for this one?
Tia.

[Chris Goss]

Crash was near Bournezau and I can see no claims

[Buckeye30]

Looks like most if not all 7 losses (1 evaded) were Flak while strafing. From Grover Hall's "1000 destroyed"..........


"How was it, Jim?" Blakeslee asked.
"Okay, I guess, Don," Clark answered. "Got seven N.Y.R. though".
"Seven?" asked Blakeslee.
"Yeah, the light stuff was plenty wicked".


N.Y.R. = Not yet returned.
Nick


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...5/joseph-goetz

[Snautzer]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

Crash was near Bournezau and I can see no claims

Thanks Cris, for location see links. Is there another source for Bournezau?



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z2U...usp=drive_link


and


https://drive.google.com/file/d/10jj...usp=drive_link

[Snautzer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Looks like most if not all 7 losses (1 evaded) were Flak while strafing. From Grover Hall's "1000 destroyed"..........


"How was it, Jim?" Blakeslee asked.
"Okay, I guess, Don," Clark answered. "Got seven N.Y.R. though".
"Seven?" asked Blakeslee.
"Yeah, the light stuff was plenty wicked".


N.Y.R. = Not yet returned.
Nick


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...5/joseph-goetz

Most if not all are are in the KUJ i think.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/10jj...usp=drive_link


https://drive.google.com/file/d/10jj...usp=drive_link

[Chris Goss]

Not sure by what you mean. There is no town in that area with the name Bourmegeau from what I can see

[Stig Jarlevik]

Looking in Fred Trendle's Point Blank Band 3/44 (no I have not checked Prien et al) he says
there were no claims by Luftwaffe on the western front.
Their only claims were over Italy

All seven losses from the 4FG were to Flak. Joseph Goetz in particular is listed as
"shot down by Flak in the area "La Brejonniere", 1.2km SW Bournezeau" which fits what Chris
said.

The fighter opposition facing the 4FG that day seems only to have been the Erg Grp West, loosing
five Fw 190.

B Rgds
Stig

[Snautzer]

Well the kuj states jager. Including a crash site,why would they do that? Source beyond a macr would be nice. I do think flak is the prop. cause but I have read hundreds of ku, kuj j and their macr to know faults were made. And copied.
So other sources would be great.

Thanks for the replies

[Buckeye30]

Don't want to go back to the MACRs but the only one which mentions fighters is 3438 (1/Lt. W. C. Hawkins 335th); James Dye also 335th. was with him, wounded but returned to make his report.
"We were jumped by 8 Jerries about 25-30 miles Northwest of Bordeaux at 1445 hours."
Does this match the crash site though?

https://www.4thfightergroupassociati...inswcweb_a.pdf


Nick

[Stig Jarlevik]

I also now checked Prien et al and there are no German claims that day.

The only unit reporting contact was the Erg Grp West

Either the US report is wrong or pilots from the Erg Grp were either shot down or failed to
see their victim(s) crash. If that was so, no other pilots from the unit saw anything as well.

B Rgds
Stig