A factory fresh Me 109G-G14AS

[veltro]

Originally Posted by Modeldad

(...) Note also the rudder appears lighter than the fin in front.

IMHO, the different hue of the rudder is simply due to the fact that it is slightly angled... which is confirmed also by the shadow in the top hinge.

HTH

[Marc-André Haldimann]

[quote=Modeldad;38503]Playing with the images in Photoship it appears that there is a banded camoufalge. A dark, wide band at the front of the cowl going from upper left to lower right. Another at the cockpit and a third behind the fuselage cross. A fourth may be at the fin and going under the tailplanes. Note also the rudder appears lighter than the fin infront.


Hi Modeldad,

Correct, there is after all a two tone camo scheme; it is also faintly visible on the original picture.

Thanks for your input

Marc

[Cpt_Farrel]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

Hi Kuba,

Anders,

Darck colour around the entire fueselage: is this a fact or an illusion borne out of the prevailing light conditions when the shot was taken? Or was it again an all black machine, like "Green 5", 2./EJG 2?

Thanks for your inputs

Marc

I'm quite convinced that it's not the light, look at the enginecowling, there's no way that it's only a shadow doing that. Also, I think it looks the same on "Yellow 5" in the JaPo book. The well known photo of Yellow 7 from JG300 probably show the same camo too, only that the engine cowling was replaced causing the effect that there's a dark band around the forward part of the nose, which in reality would have been the remains of a "round the cowling" RLM83 or RLM81 camo.

Veltro: Thanks for the decal theory by the way, that would explain my last problem with my own theory...

[Rasmussen]

IIRC at first Erla painter painted the words on the fuselage with an mask, then covered with an rectangular piece the words and painted the camouflage.

If I use an decal I have an clear cut. Have a look on the second pic from Ferdinando --- not the "Wasser ..." but the "Vorsicht beim ..." (lower edge). There isn't such an cut ... it's more an "hand - made" border with a lot of irregularities ... IMHO ... of course.

If the features from Mr. Sheflin are correct, then it's an G-10/R6 from the 151 xxx - or 152 xxx - batch (some a/c's from the 150 xxx - and 491 xxx - batch are possible too but I'd guess it's unlikely).

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[veltro]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

If I use an decal I have an clear cut. Have a look on the second pic from Ferdinando --- not the "Wasser ..." but the "Vorsicht beim ..." (lower edge). There isn't such an cut ... it's more an "hand - made" border with a lot of irregularities ... IMHO ... of course.

It's clearly a matter of opinions, Rasmussen, and I surely do respect yours. However, it would be no surprise to me if only smaller wordings (like the "Wasser..." one) were printed as complete decals and bigger ones (like the "Vorsicht..." one) could be instead applied in the usual way, that is painted through a mask.

At any rate, I would like to underline how the "Wasser..." wording in the second image looks scratched and peeled away in points... showing the camouflage beneath it! Had it been applied on immaculate RLM 76, this would have not been possible... IMHO of course too.

EDIT: by looking closely at the photographs I own of Italian ANR Bf 109 G-10 Erla(s), I've found a proof that also the "Vorsicht..." wording was a decal, at least on these aircraft. Look at the following detail:



...it is clearly visible how the decal peeled away in one point showing the camouflage underneath.

In this second image...



...the decal wasn't applied correctly and thus looks "warped" a little.

I think this is interesting evidence, IMHO.

HTH

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel

I'm quite convinced that it's not the light, look at the enginecowling, there's no way that it's only a shadow doing that. Also, I think it looks the same on "Yellow 5" in the JaPo book. The well known photo of Yellow 7 from JG300 probably show the same camo too, only that the engine cowling was replaced causing the effect that there's a dark band around the forward part of the nose, which in reality would have been the remains of a "round the cowling" RLM83 or RLM81 camo.

Hi Cpt Farrel,

Well, you can check any amount of late war Me 109's photos, and you will notice more often then not this issue of having a very dark looking lower part of the fuselage, even if the sun position respective to the subject is good. This is quite obvious for the II./JG 52 109's which landed on 8 May 1945 at Neubiberg. IMHO, it has to do with the curvature of the fuselage, probably reinforced in some cases by exhaust stains (which is not the case for the plane we're talking about...).

Thanks for your input

Marc

[Skyraider3D]

Originally Posted by veltro

IMHO, the different hue of the rudder is simply due to the fact that it is slightly angled... which is confirmed also by the shadow in the top hinge.

Agreed. All too often aircraft in colour profiles are given a different colour rudder because the photo was misinterpretated.
Similarly shadows cast on an aircraft from nearby structures are sometimes mistaken for "special markings"

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by veltro

...the decal wasn't applied correctly and thus looks "warped" a little.

I think this is interesting evidence, IMHO.

Hello Ferdinando,

it seems you are right. Why?

1.) I checked my interviews with former factory workers. They didn't speak especially about the service labels. "Unfortunately" I spoke with this men 15 years ago and this point wasn't in the center of interest --- so my notices are very vague.

2.) There were the so - called "Tauchbilder" (our decals) used for some instruments and a/c parts. It's likely that some (many?) service labels existed too.

3.) Your picture proofs, Ferdinando

An interesting news, thanks.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[RolandF]

Hi all - my first post here...

Maybe I have some info about the location "Grafenwöhr"- some 10km away from Grafenwöhr there was a Messerschmitt factory for the final assembly of Bf 109 fighters like the G-6, G-14 and K-4. The factory was situated at Vilseck airfield close to Heringnohe village halfway south from Vilseck to Grafenwöhr.

The parts for the Messerschmitt fighters were fabricated by surrounding subcontractors and prisoners from the nearby Flossenbürg concentration camp. A factory from a schoolfriend´s father was involved in the production of 109 wings and as a boy I still could see there fences manufactured from Messerschmitt wing´s profiles.

After the final assembly the 109s were transferred to Amberg-Schafhof airfield and handed over to Luftwaffe personnel.

So I´m rather sure this particular plane was photographed at Vilseck-Heringnohe airfield or at Amberg-Schafhof.

Thanks for your attention

Roland

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi RolandF,

thanks for this excellent background information. It gives a precise explanation as to why a Me 109G-10 in such excellent condition was found there back in May 1945. It is thus a real possibility that this plane actually never flew, thus giving an excellent explanation for its pristine state.

One question though: did the Vilseck factory also produce 109G-10's?.

And on the lighter side, any Messerschmitt wing profile fences around nowadays?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge

Marc