Spitfire in Switzerland ?

[paulmcmillan]

How is your French:

Thanks to Pierre Babin, via Henk Welting



SALOMON-KOECHLIN Henri, Jean, Louis

30/01/1915 Naissance à Bourges (Cher)
30/09/1935 Admis à l'Ecole Navale
01/10/1936 Nommé aspirant de Marine
01/10/1937 Nommé Enseigne de vaisseau de 2ème classe
01/10/1937 Croiseur-école Jeanne d'Arc
15/09/1938 Cuirassé Dunkerque
01/05/1939 Aviso colonial Bougainville
01/10/1939 Promu enseigne de vaisseau de 1ère classe
01/03/1940 Ecole de l'Air AA, Versailles
01/08/1940 Breveté observateur d'aéronautique (n° 3996)
01/09/1940 Escadrille 1B, Port-Lyautey
24/10/1941 CEP de Fréjus-Saint-Raphaël
15/08/1942 Breveté pilote d'aéronautique (n° 2827)
15/08/1942 Escadrille 1AC, Port-Lyautey
31/12/1943 Promu lieutenant de vaisseau
15/05/1944 La 1ère Flottille de chasse, alors basée à Lartigue en Algérie, est dissoute et ses pilotes sont affectés à des Groupes de chasse de l'AA. En ce qui concerne le LV Koechlin, il rejoint le GC I/7 équipé de Spitfire.
20/04/1945 Abattu au cours d'une mission d'attaque au sol. Par chance il peut atterrir sur le ventre dans le "champignon" de Schaffhouse, c'est à dire en territoire suisse.
16/06/1945 Nommé Chevalier de la Légion d'Honneur
01/10/1945 1ère Flottille de chasse, Hyères
01/12/1946 Escadrille 54S, Commandant
30/10/1947 Admis à la retraite proportionnelle et rayé des rôles de l'active.
15/09/1948 Mort en service aérien commandé à Brétigny, aux commandes d'un Arsenal VB.10. Il était alors pilote d'essais civil à la Société Arsenal.

The Arsenal aircraft of SALOMON-KOECHLIN took off from Brétigny on 15 Sept. 1948 and crashed precisely at ETINEHEM (département de la Somme).

Un dernier point : Salomon-Koechlin n'a obtenu qu'une seule victoire aérienne, le 26/12/1944.

If you were unsure of what the Arsenal VB.10 was (as I was)

http://avia.russian.ee/air/france/arsenal_vb-10.php

A rough translation is;


SALOMON-KOECHLIN Henri, Jean, Louis
30/01/1915 Birth in Bourge
30/09/1935 Admis at the Naval college
01/10/1936 Named candidate of Navy
01/10/1937 Named Ensign of vessel of 2nd class
01/10/1937 Cruiser-school Jeanne d' Arc
15/09/1938 Battleship Dunkirk
01/05/1939 colonial Sloop Bougainville
01/10/1939 Promoted ensign of vessel of 1st class
01/03/1940 Flying school AA, observant Versailles
01/08/1940 Patented of aeronautics (n° 3996)
01/09/1940 Flotillas 1B, Port-Lyautey
24/10/1941 STOCK of Frejus-Saint-Raphaël
15/08/1942 Patented pilot of aeronautics (n° 2827)
15/08/1942 Flotillas 1AC, Port-Lyautey
31/12/1943 Promoted lieutenant
15/05/1944 the 1st Flotilla of hunting, then based in Lartigue in Algeria, is dissolved and its pilots are assigned to Groups of hunting of the AA. With regard to the LV Koechlin, it joined the GC I/7 equipped with Spitfire.
20/04/1945 Cut down during a ground attack mission. By chance it crashland on the belly in "mushroom" of Schaffhouse, i.e. in Swiss territory.
16/06/1945 Named Chevalier of the Legion of Honour 01/10/1945 1st Flotilla of hunting, Hyères
01/12/1946 Flotillas 54S, Ordering
30/10/1947 Allowed with the retirement proportional and striped roles of the active one.
15/09/1948 Died in ordered air service with Brétigny, with the orders of an Arsenal VB.10. It was then test pilot civil at the Company Arsenal.

A last point: Solomon-Koechlin obtained only one air victory, the 26/12/1944.

To add to this:

19.11.45 768 Sqn Easthaven. Collided with two stationary parked cars in Seafire III LR865 at Crail Scotland
29.11.45 768 Sqn Easthaven. Hit Barrier in Seafire IIc LR727
29.11.45 768 Sqn Easthaven Heavy landing, port oleo collapsed in Seafire III NF582

The only piece missing is what was the serial number of the Arsenal VB.10

[paulmcmillan]

My last comments on this subject

From Jean-Pierre Touzeau via Ben Gilbert

"
Le 15 septembre, le Lieutenant de Vaisseau Henri Koechlin ( ancien du groupe "Provence", titulaire d'une victoire) essaya le VB.10 N°3. Après 10 minutes de vol, il parut vouloir se poser et, comme s'il s'était présenté trop long, fit un passage bas sur la piste, tout sorti, le moteur arrière peut être au ralenti, s'éloigna, commença un virage à gauche et se posa dans un champ. En roulant, l'avion fut pris dans une ravine, se renversa et explosa.


Which BabelFish rougly transalates as:
September 15, the Lieutenant Henri Koechlin (old of the group "Provence", holder of a victory) tested the VB.10 N°3. After 10 minutes of flight, it appeared to want to be posed and, as if it had been presented too long, made a low passage on the track, very left, the back engine can be with the idle, moved away, began a turn on the left and was posed in a field. While running, the plane was taken in a gully, overturned and exploded.
And the following vame via AB-IX

Arsenal VB 10

2 Prototypes and 3 Production aircraft built:

01 ff 22.12.45 ER 33 fate not known
02 ff 21.09.46 w/o 10.01.48 pilot Pierre Decroo bailed out
1 ff 03.11.47 ER 33 flew for the last time on 21.09.48 fate not known
2 ff no details ER 33 fate not known
3 ff 30.06.48 w/o 15.09.48 pilot Salomon-Koechlin killed

Paul

[Amrit1]

Excellent work Paul. I wonder if the Koechlin family site should be told?

So in summary, the Spitfire crashed in Switzerland in 1945, but pilot was safe (though) injured. Died as a civilian test pilot in 1948 (though for a military aircraft)?

[paulmcmillan]

Originally Posted by Amrit1

Excellent work Paul. I wonder if the Koechlin family site should be told?

So in summary, the Spitfire crashed in Switzerland in 1945, but pilot was safe (though) injured. Died as a civilian test pilot in 1948 (though for a military aircraft)?

Yes - I emailed the link to the Koechlin contact email address and she replied with a bit more info about how he got his the hyphen in his name

and

Yes

[Alex Smart]

Amrit1 and Paul,

Thank you Both for all of your efforts and help in solving my enquirey of the Spitfire in Switzerland.

What would complete it is details of the markings carried by MK366.
Or perhaps a photo of the crashed aircraft.

Thanks again

Alex

[Amrit1]

According to rafweb.org:

[quote]
No 328 (GC/I/7 'Provence') Squadron

Formed on 1 December 1943 by renumbering a French unit based in North Africa and together with No 326 and 327 Squadrons, it formed a Free French fighter Wing on the island of Corsica, where it moved to join the other two.
The Wing covered the Allied landing in Southern France in August 1944 and in September moved to Alsace-Lorraine, where they flew offensive patrols supporting the First French Army on its advance into Germany.

Initially equipped with Spitfire VB/Cs, and IXs, by April 1944 the Mk Vs had gone and between July and September 1944 it also used the Mk VIII, after which it reverted to just the Mk IX, which it continued to operate until November 1945, when it ceased to be a RAF unit.
No Badge Authorised
[quote]

And its markings were:

http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark310-330.htm

But that's just a general view.

[paulmcmillan]

Spooky...

The administrator of the Koechlin web site sent me this today:

PS. Is Renaud Weber part of your forum group because he wrote to me with the following information this week-end? I cannot believe that it was pure coincidence...

Ancien d’AEROSPATIALE, je dispose de l’ouvrage « Mémoire d’usine 1924-1985 » rédigé par le Comité d’établissement d’Aérospatiale Chatillon sous Bagneux.
On y trouve p.130 :

« Un deuxième pilote, Henri Koecklin, nouvellement engagé comme pilote de réception par la SNCAN, et sans véritable formation de pilote d’essai, perdit la vie dans un deuxième accident, huit mois plus tard, le 15 septembre 1948, sur le troisième VB10 de série de Méaulte. Des ennuis techniques – non identifiés – le forcèrent à tenter un atterrissage de campagne, à côté de la piste de l’usine. ‘’Cet atterrissage se serait peut-être bien terminé si le terrain n’avait présenté un ravin, ignoré probablement du piloté (ayant encore peu d’expérience de la région) et découvert trop tard par lui.’’ (note officielle diffusée par le service d’information du secrétariat d’Etat à l’Air, contestée par des anciens de la piste, témoins de l’accident). L’avion se retourna et prit feu. Une semaine après le deuxième acciden tomba l’ordre d’arrêter la fabrication du VB10 : ‘’ Mesure de sagesse ‘’ titrait Les Ailes du 9 octobre 1948. »

Il y a donc un problème d’orthographe du nom de famille que je n’ai pas encore eu le temps de résoudre.
Cordialement.
Renaud WEBER


Which Google translates as:

Old of aerospatiale, I lay out of the work “Memory of factory 1924-1985” written by the Committee of establishment of Aerospace Chatillon under Bagneux. P.130 there is found: “A second pilot, Henri Koecklin, lately engaged as pilot of reception by the SNCAN, and without true training of test pilot, lost the life in a second accident, eight month later, on September 15, 1948, on the third VB10 of series of Méaulte. Technical troubles - not identified - forced to try a landing of countryside, beside the track of the factory. `' This landing would have finished perhaps well if the ground had not presented a ravine, had probably been unaware of controlled (having still little experiment of the area) and had discovered too late by him. '' (official note diffused by the service of information of the secretariat of State to the Air, disputed by the old ones of the track, witnesses of the accident). The plane was turned over and taken fire. One week after the second acciden fell the order to stop the manufacture of the VB10: `' Measurement of wisdom `' titrated the Wings of October 9, 1948. ” There is thus a problem of orthography of the surname which I did not have yet time to solve. Cordially. Renaud WEBER "

Regards

Paul

[Amrit1]

You keep pulling things out of your hat Paul

Poor s*d - to be sent up as an inexperienced test pilot, in an unfamiliar area, and in a dodgy plane - after surviving the war!!

Nice work, Paul.

[PhilHoff]

Hello,

There's a short article about MK366's crash landing in "Le Fana de l'Aviation", Nr 207, february 1987, by Hans-Heini Stapfer (Un Spitfire en Suisse, p. 21). Here's a short resume:

On april 20th 1945, at 06h35, 20 Spitfire of GC 1/7 "Provence" take off from Strasbourg-Etzheim for a sweep in southern Germany. The mission is relatively uneventful, but at 07h55, the Lieutenant de Vaisseau Henri Jean Louis Koechlin leaves the formation due to engine problems. He crash lands in Merishausen, almost without injury. He is later transferred to a hospital.

His plane, a Spitfire IX MK366, coded "Y" (without squadron code), is written off and subsequently scrapped in Switzerland. There are two pictures of the wrecked plane in the "Fana", the Spitfire appears to wear french roundels, a three colour rudder and the code "Y".

HTH

Philippe

[paulmcmillan]

Phillippe

Thanks for that.. Very interesting... It may also go to explain why my files had incorrectly 'Pilot Y.KOECHLIN' Killed - The Y could have been infact the Sqn Code on the aircraft!

Paul