Polish pilopts 1 September 1939

[Christer Bergström]

Late in the afternoon of 1 September 1939, a formation of around 90 He 111s from KG 27 escorted by 36 Bf 109s of I./JG 21 flew against Warsaw. Near Modlin they were intercepted by (according to the German report) 20 - 30 PZL P.24s. In the ensuing combat, no German bombers were lost, while the P.24s and the Bf 109s clashed. I./JG 21 claimed to have shot down 5 P.24s, but in return 13 of I./JG 21's aircraft failed to return to base after that combat. Some of these Bf 109s made belly-landings after their pilots had lost the navigation, but several also were shot down by the Polish pilots. I wonder if anyone knows which the successful Polish fighter unit was? How did the Polish unit report that combat?

All best,

Christer Bergström

[Franek Grabowski]

Germans clashed with Brygada Pościgowa (111, 112, 113, 114 & 123 Eskadry Mysliwskie) plus 152 Eskadra Mysliwska. They were ecquipped with P11c, P.11a and P.7 fighters. Me 110s were involved as well and it seems they were responsible for attacks on bailing out Polish airmen. It is believed claims for 2 He 111, 1 Do 17, 6 Me 109 and 1 Ju 87 should have been filled.
PS Checked briefly Bob's claims - it seems only one claim seems almost certain. All the others seem not possible to verify with the current knowledge.

[PZLvsME109]

Can I have sources for the original poster's claim? Thank you!

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Most answers, almost 100%, for this quetion you may find in very deep reserach done 6 years ago by M. Emmerling, "Brygada Pościgowa kontra Luftwaffe" in 2005, in Militaria XX wieku.

Polish P.11s had destroyed (100 % damage) according his research 2 Me 109Ds (1. + 2./ JG 21). Polish victors were were from 113. Eskadra Mysliwska (Radomski and Borowski) from Brygada Pościgowa of course.

Total losses were 6 Me 109 D (100% losses), but only 2 due to the combat (it is sure), rest by the lack of fuel and lost orientation or could be also by some, small damages sustained during the combat.

I have not seen yet something better resarched about this topic.

Marek Murawski had done his nice material about "Bf 109 C/D w kampanii wrzesniowej 1939 roku" in 2009 by Kagero, and there are some new data to Emmerling story, he also use Emmerling's researach too.

Regards,
Mirosław Wawrzyński

PS

Color of one of this Me 109 D, which was involved in this combat and later landed in Lithuania plus story about capture the other two by Polses you may find in my and Jacek Jackiewcz Publication "Captured Me 109s", from 2007: yellow 8 W.Nr 2436 of 3./JG 21. Behrens's plane (he was from 1./JG 21, POW) was captured intact by soldiers of I Platoon of 13. Observation Flight, near Lomża.

[VoyTech]

Mr Emmerling's research may well be very deep, but it is not always reliable, really. This kind of logic:

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

only 2 due to the combat (it is sure), rest [...] could be also by some, small damages sustained during the combat.

is rather frequent in his work. Sadly, it is often repeated without thinking by his readers.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Sadly, it is often repeated without thinking by his readers.

1. How does this relate to things?
2. Which makes sense, such talk?

Being dissatisfied always easy, instead of complaining, do something yourself, then see what you can.

It is very convenient to hide behind the nickname. What he published a real-world under his real name, that you're so sharp in the courts?

Regards,
mirekw