19.12.41 three Ju 52 lost over Creete

[byron-]

19.12.41 three Ju 52 lost over Crete

Mentioned in the war diary of "Seekomandant Kreta". Any other infos about these planes?

[RT]

There are 4 for 3 places

3.Kgrzbv400 H Heraklion b A wasser im brennstoff verm, JU52 6583
1.Kgrzbv400 H Malesmes b A JU52 7132 DE+TY
1.Kgrzbv400 H Heraklion b N see JU52 6222
Kgrzbv500 H Kreta b A JU52 5644 TN+BR

Where hv you found the doc ?? is there any good sheets on 1944 ???

Rémi

[RT]

The casualties...

BM19TAA Bäuerle hermann oblt b v sta,ka
BM19TAA Heller oskar uffz bm t
BM19TAA Keuchen willi uffz bs t
BM19TAA Radschizki ewald ofw f t
BM19TAA Zimmermann max uffz bf t
BM19TAB Nielmann werner ltn f x
BM19TAB Schuster erwin ofw b x
BM19TAB Wenzel adam oge bm x
BM19TAB Wenzlaff günter ge bf x
BM19TAC Papenfuss walter oge f t
BM19TAC Richter rudolf ofw bf x
BM19TAC Schweitzer robert uffz bm t
BM19TAD Christ peter oge bm x
BM19TAD Ehrig herbert oge b x
BM19TAD Gerhard horst uffz f x
BM19TAD Löffler kurt ge bf x

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys

Rémi's answers makes me wonder about a couple of things

In my books I cannot find any reference to any Allied activity over Crete this day. This in itself does not mean much, so my questions are two fold
1) Can any of these losses be attributed to any Allied activity?
2) If not, it sounds almost bizarre that three Ju 52 were lost in the same area on the same day. Collisions or perhaps even sabotage?

I am the first to admit that transportation Ju 52 are supposed to do so , roam around various distances and transport various needed items, but logic says that you as a commander chose a unit which is reasonably nearby. According to Holms page KGrzbV 500 was based Tazinskaja (which to my ears sounds very Russian). What was their Ju 52 doing on Crete?

Cheers
Stig

[RudiS]

3.Kgrzbv400 H Heraklion b A wasser im brennstoff verm, JU52 6583

"wasser im brennstoff verm" means "probably water in the fuel". Bad fuel or sabotage....?

[byron-]

@Stig

If you read carefully the document, a sabotage occured with the fuel. We know now about men of the greek resistance doing sabotage in the german repair establishment in Athens.

according to war diary of the 5. Gebirgsdivision
the Kampfgruppe z.b.V. 400 with Stab and all 4 Staffel visited Crete 12.41, 01.42, 04.42. ,
the 3. Staffel of Kampfgruppe z.b.V. 500 is reported to have been on Crete in January 1942

@ RT

the source of my documents are the war diaries, in that case the diary of Seekommandant Kreta 03.06.41-16.08.41. Crashes of planes near the island are reported but without unit or crew names.

Thank you Remi for your infos about planes and casualties.
The Staffel of KG z.b.V. 400 had the letters H (1), K (2), L (3) and M (4)

You report 1. Staffel with DE+TY the Y is 14th Staffel ???
can you please define the Staffel all these names belong?
does b means Beobachter? Sta.Ka. Staffel-kapitän, f Flieger?
Was 7.th (R) Staffel Kampfgruppe 500 in Dez. 1941 in Crete?

Thanks in advance

Byron

[RT]

I confirm quite a dozen of losses for Kgrzbv500 around Greece/Kreta, so they where there, nd even some stay for a long moment

DE+TY is Factory code nothing to do with unit-code, TAA is first plane , TAB is second...
b beobachter, f pilot..

rémi

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Guys

Byron
Your belief in my German language knowledge is thankful, but I hate to disappoint you, it is very rudimentary I'm afraid...

Looks like these Transport units moved a bit more than I thought

Cheers
Stig