JG3 Victories

[Nokose]

10Jul41
Obfhr Karl Kohl 4./JG3
TB-3 (1) 16:55
Lt. Karl-Heinz Ponec 4.
TB-3 (1) 16:58
Oblt Herbert Kijewski 5.
TB-3 (11) 17:20
Oblt Josef Heinzeller 5.
TB-3 (22) 17:25 E of Borodjanka
(source: JFV 6/I by J. Prien)

13 TBAP losses 4 TB-3
(source: Battle for the Sky. 1941. From the Dnepr to the Gulf of Finland by Dmitriy Khazanov)

[Nokose]

10Jul41
Uffz Werner Lucas 4./JG3
TB-3 (2) 19:22 5 km E. Korostyschew
TB-3 (3) 19:30 6 km W. Maidanowka
TB-3 (4) 19:33 Chromowka
Oblt Franz Beyer Stab II/JG3
(15) TB-3 19:31
(16) TB-3 19:35

14 TBAP losses 7 TB-3
(same sources as above)

Fw Alfred Heckman 5/JG3
(14) 1 motor 17:20 W. Kolontschina
(15) 1 motor 17:30 W. Kolontschina
Oblt Herbert Kijewski 5/JG3
(13) 1 motor 17:30 Kopylowi

74 ShAP losses 2 IL-2
(Khazanov book [In Russian] source)

[Rob Romero]

'Nokose',

Could you explain the numbers in the parenthesis such as,

Fw Alfred Heckman 5/JG3
(14) 1 motor 17:20 W. Kolontschina

Thanks,

Rob Romero

[Nokose]

Victory number.

[Nokose]

11Jul41
Oblt. Helmut Meckel 2./JG3
(24) V-11 09:50 E of Kiev
(25) V-11 16:30 N of Kiev

227 BAP losses 2 Su-2

10Jul41
Hptm Walter Oesau Stab III/JG3
(64) V-11 09:07
Fw Georg Schentke 9./JG3
(14) V-11 09:10

227 BAP losses 2 Su-2

Sources same as above.

[yogybär]

Nice data again, Nokose. Thanks!

3 questions:
1) Do you have more details on these ,missions by 227BAP and 13,14TBAP? I.e. number of planes in mission, base etc. ?
2) On 10.7., there were 3 other "V-11"-claims by pilots of Stab/ 1./ and 9./JG3. These were all on the same AF like the pilots you mentioned. WHat do you think about this? Maybe overclaiming?
3) Is there a link to that source you mention?

[Nokose]

(1) All the above missions were to bomb the Panzer units on the highway from Zhitomir to Kiev. Nothing about their numbers and bases.
(2) These were the ones he mentioned for the "V-11's" on the 10July. He did say that half the Il-2's had serious damage but didn't mention if there was 4 or 15. He mentions in the book about the use of single and small numbers being wasted in attacks.
(3) From book only.

[Nokose]

03Aug41
Oblt. Kurt Sochatzy 7/JG3 (Staffel Kapitaen)
(38) I-16 16:40 over Kiev
Luftkampf 16:40 I-16, rammed area of Keiv, Bf-109 F-2 Wknr. 8217, 100%

Kharzanov's book states the Russian records listed this encounter as 31Jul41. Ml. Lt Chichiko Kaiserovich Bendeliani of 43 IAP turned 180 degrees with his I-16 and came head on at Sochatzy. Both fighters hit head on according to Uffz Hans Schleef (7/JG3). Sochatzy was pulled from the the Dnepr and released in 1949. Bendeliani became a Russian ace who favored head on attacks.

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello all,

10Jul41
Uffz Werner Lucas 4./JG3
TB-3 (2) 19:22 5 km E. Korostyschew
TB-3 (3) 19:30 6 km W. Maidanowka
TB-3 (4) 19:33 Chromowka
Oblt Franz Beyer Stab II/JG3
(15) TB-3 19:31
(16) TB-3 19:35

14 TBAP losses 7 TB-3

On 10 July 41 Uffz Werner Lucas of 4./JG 3 was flying with Adjutant Oblt Franz Beyer of Stab II./JG 3 - during a free hunting mission east of Shitomir they engaged a formation of 5 TB-3's. Three were claimed by Lucas and the other two by Beyer. The Russian bombers were unable to drop their bombs.

Lucas' claims:
19.22 hours a TB-3 at 5 km east of Korostyschew at 1500 metres. One attack from behind. Hits in the engine. Russian bomber went down. 7 baled out.

19.30 hours a TB-3 at 6 km west of Maidanowka at 2000 metres. Hits in first engine. One fire at fuselage. Plane went down and seven baled out.

19.33 hours a TB-3 near Chomowka at 2000 metres. Engine was hit and on fire. Seven baled out.

In all the cases Lucas claimed that of all of this claims seven crew members baled out.

Can anybody provide more details on this engagement? And who can explain the difference between the five claims and seven losses..?

Best wishes,
Rob

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hi all!

Rob:

Shitomir - Zhitomir (Житомир), Actually.