Me109G-10 Dual Production Plates

[Graham Boak]

Mike: I think you're being a little too dogmatic there. Improvements, or at least changes, would continue to be made to the G-10 design throughout production. It is not beyond possibility that a batch of fuselages made to a given modification standard could be "caught" and "upgraded" before moving to final assembly. I'm not saying that this is the reason for these dual plates (or offering any other theory), just qualifying your comments above.

[RalphZimmer]

Hi Mike,
perhaps I was not able to express my opinion more clearly - sorry, that's one of the disadvantages being a german native speaker ;-)

I agree with you, that making those changes AFTER production/delivery probably didn't cause the dual plates.
I meant that AFTER design of the "basic" G-10 the design might go on. In that case it would make sense to differentiate(?) a/c which got the "new" design features DURING construction from those which did not.
So - if I am correct, which I'm not sure of - there might be cases in which a newly produced a/c needs a special "mark" which shows, what changes were incorporated DURING production.
In that cases a date might be a good way to show, how "up-to-date" an a/c is.
The problem with this speculation is: why six fields, if you only need to stamp ONE date? Or could it be that if the airframe is stamped during production and more changes are incorporated afterwards, one needs another date?

Perhaps some of the other members have documents on this topic? Otherwise we might guess for ages ;-)

(As you certainly know there were changes on earlier variants - sometimes without changing the designation. There existed lists containing these changes and the work numbers of the concerned planes. But this was AFTER production/delivery of course.)

Best regards

R. Zimmer

[harrison987]

Hi Guys,

DIANA only produced 400 aircraft. Any design change would certainly have been made to ALL aircraft after the change, not just a few...and ALL aircraft made after the design change, or upgrade would have certainly had this dual tag (assuming that was the reason).

That is not the case.

Tags were found on some aircraft in early blocks, also later. Many aircraft wtihin those SAME blocks had only a single tag.

If design changes were being done (as some were on earier G1 to G-14) aicraft) it does not make sense to ONLY have the G-10 with a dual plate. Why have it at all? The G-10 was the most advanced Messer. Dual tags would have also been used on the F, earlier G's or K if that ws the case.

I can understand if the tag actually "indicated" any change...but it did not. It only indicated a date.

If any design changes were being done, it would have been very minor if at all...and I have no knowledge of any design changes.

hmmmm...

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello Guys,

After reading the last few posts and a few hours of quality brainstorming, I think another possibility should be considered. Ralph's posts actually gave a clue. With the "Änderungsstufe" (degree of change), we all immediately thought that something had to be improved or upgraded. Maybe the situation was quite the opposite - the airframe/airplane was downgraded. It is proven that some G-10 from Erla and WNF production were powered with a DB 605AS, not exclusively with the DB 605D. It is not know if the AS engines were installed already during the production proces on the assembly lines, or some time later. Nevertheless, each G-10 could be fitted with an AS engine after some minor changes to the bearers. If I remember correctly, even a field-manual for this was issued. So perhaps these "Änderungsstufe" indicates a G-10 with an AS engine.
I know, it would have been a lot more logical and easier for us to understand, if they in that case had just added a second plate with the inscription "AS powered" instead of "12.44" or similar. Perhaps really the date on the "Änderungsstufe" meant this is a G-10/U4, stand 12.44 ?!

[harrison987]

Hi Tomislav!!!

I actually did consider something similar a few weeks ago. The problem is that the AS and DB engines took B4/87 Fuel.

DIANA had the DB (87) in the early stages, and all others were DC engines (C4). I cross-referenced all fuel filling signs, and unfortunautly, "C4" was on aircraft which had both tags, and also aircraft with just the one, ruling out the installation of an AS engine

So that tag could not be an engine-related...

I WISHED it was though...would have made the most sense .

Mike

[Kutscha]

Originally Posted by harrison987

Hi Tomislav!!!

I actually did consider something similar a few weeks ago. The problem is that the AS and DB engines took B4/87 Fuel.

DIANA had the DB (87) in the early stages, and all others were DC engines (C7). I cross-referenced all fuel filling signs, and unfortunautly, "C7" was on aircraft which had both tags, and also aircraft with just the one, ruling out the installation of an AS engine

So that tag could not be an engine-related...

I WISHED it was though...would have made the most sense .

Mike

C7 fuel?? Sure it is not C4 you mean?

[harrison987]

HA!!!

yes thank you!!! I think I type too fast! I just correctedt above...

Thank you!

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by harrison987

Also, why were these plate not found on all G-10's? and why ONLY G-10's?

Seems odd, no?

This isn't right because the plate "Änderungsstufe" was found on a Erla-built G-14/AS too (for example) like the well known "Rita" from Fw. Eberhard Gzik (2./JG 300).

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[harrison987]

Hi Rasmussen,

Rita was actually an Erla-built G-10 built on an older G-14/AS airframe.

She had the 605D and taller tail wheel wheel which only specific to the G-10 and K. She also, had the larger oil tank and different cowling than the regular G-14/AS...but also retained the smaller mail wheel tires...

It was a very unique airframe, probably as she was one of the earliest G-10's built.

There is some speculation and disagreement over "Rita" being a G-14/AS or G-10...however once you have the 605D and tall tail, you pretty much conclude she was a G-10, as those were features that were only slated for the G-10/K.

G-14/AS and G-10 production were almost simultaneous during the transition period, so being an early G-10, she had a lot of G-14/AS features from the older airframe she was built from...

So...

As she was a built as a G-10, she has the two data tags



Mike

[Rasmussen]

We speak about the same a/c? I don't believe it ... but now a haven't time I must on work.

Best wishes
Rasmussen