3./NAG 4

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

although my recent efforts to gain some information related to close-reconnaissance units have not triggered even one response I am not deterred and will try once more:

This time the subject of my enquiry is 3./NAG 4, which is some sort of white elephant in my records. All I have found so far is that the unit existed at least from March to November 1944, becoming 1./NAG 15 as of December 1st, 1944. During this time the Staffel suffered at least nine a/c losses due to enemy action, while another 16 a/c were lost or damaged in accidents or to other causes without enemy action, whereas the personal losses remain unknown so far ( at least to me, that is ). Also, I have not come across a single individual loss return, be it WASt or else, concerning 3./NAG 4.

It is also recorded that the Staffel submitted three claims for enemy a/c shot down by July 1st, 1944.

So, Gentlemen, who can enlighten me with respect to this Staffel, on or off board ? Any details are welcome.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[Dénes Bernád]

Are NAG 4 and NAGr 4 the same recce unit? If yes, I have several claims filed by Ltn. Hoyer and Uffz. Hisselbach of the 3rd Staffel of NAGr. 4 in the Summer of 1944. No info on any loss, though...

P.S. I also noticed a couple of claims by pilots of 4.(Eins.)/NAG 4.

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Denes,

no, they are not one and the same. Compared to 3./NAG 4 the 3rd Staffel of NAG 14 is rather well documented.

Many thanks nevertheless.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Denes,

sorry, I got your message wrong - yes, NAG 4 and NAGr. 4 should be one and the same, as the abbreviation for the term Nahaufklärungsgruppe varied in the German records - NAG and NAGr. being the two common forms.

Therefore - yes I would be very much interested to see the information that you have on 3./NAG 4 ( or 3./NAGr. 4 ).

Again, sorry for getting confused about your message at first.

Kind regards

Jochen Prien

[RT]

Seems that NAgr.4 was built-up newly in 1945 lot of losses for febr. und march of this year, noone for 1944..

Rémi

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Rémi,

the 1945-losses you mention should refer to Stab, 1. and 2./NAG 4 as 3./NAG 4 - according to my sources - was re-named 1./NAG 15 as of December 1st, 1944, and was thus no longer part of NAG 4. I have come across no information that would hint at a re-establishment of a 3./NAG 4 in 1945 as quite to the contrary parts of the unit were even disbanded before the end of the war.

I would be happy to see some of the losses yoe refer to to check them against what I already have; may I ask you therefore to let me have some samples on or off board ?

Anyway, many thanks for your assistance and

kind regards

Jochen Prien

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Jochen Prien

...yes, NAG 4 and NAGr. 4 should be one and the same, as the abbreviation for the term Nahaufklärungsgruppe varied in the German records - NAG and NAGr. being the two common forms.

O.K., I thought so.

Here are the several victory claims of this recce Staffel I found:
Date
Rank
Last name
Unit
JG
Claimed
Location
Time

1944.07.25.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
LaGG-5
31 267: 200m
07.20

1944.05.28.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
U-2
62 536: 30m
13.00

1944.07.27.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
Yak-9
22 279: 1500m
18.20

1944.08.07.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
U-2
11 399: 15m
09.10

1944.05.31.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
U-2
86 519: 20m
19.55

1944.07.21.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
Yak-9
32 45: 500m
19.10

1944.07.22.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
LaGG-5
31 53: 300m
11.15

1944.07.26.
Uffz.
Hisselbach
3.
NAGr. 4
U-2
22 559: 50m
12.25

1944.07.26.
Uffz.
Hisselbach
3.
NAGr. 4
Airacobra
32 567: 300m
18.17

1944.07.26.
Ltn.
Hoyer
3.
NAGr. 4
Airacobra
32 567: 200m
12.15

I hope this helps.

P.S. The table's formatting has gone after insertion. I tried to save what I could.

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Denes,

tahnks a lot !

Jochen Prien

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Jochen

According to an original document from Genst.GenQu.6.Abt I have a copy of, the 3./N.A.Gr.4 was formed by renaming Nahaufklärungsstaffel 2./31 on March 7th 1944.

Also, according to my notes, 3./N.AGr.4 sustained personnel losses on the following dates in 1944:

03.05.1944 1 non-officer killed on a non-operational flight

26.06.1944 1 officer killed in action, 2 non-officers missing in action, 1 non-officer killed in action, 1 non-officer killed in a flying accident

01.07.1944 1 non-officer missing in action

30.07.1944 1 non-officer missing in action

07.08.1944 1 officer killed in action

17.09.1944 1 non-officer wounded in action

In addition I have several personnel losses for N.A.Gr.4 with the text 'ohne Angabe der Staffel' attached, thus these could be personnel losses for any Staffel in the unit.

This would indicate that it should be possible to find trace of this unit at WASt

Regards,
Andreas B

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Andreas,

many thanks for your message. I have meanwhile found a number of NVM's for 3./NAG 4 which numerically seem to match with the losses you have in your list. Unfortunately 3./NAG 4 did not include the a/c details in their loss returns so that you just find the name and fate of the pilot and the usual whereabouts but nothing with respect to the a/c.

Kind regards

Jochen Prien