FW190 bulk questions

[harrison987]

To answer your questions...

Normally copyright is passed on to family if original photographer passes away, or gives the photo to another party (with documentation) and gives up copyright.

However, all German photos (planes, equipment, personnel, etc.) lost copyright after the war and became public domain due to the War Properties Act.

Owning a photo does not give anyone a copyright on it. IF there a photo does not fall into the War Properties Act, copyright would still be impossible to obtain, as the owner would have to have documentation, the ORIGINAL PHOTOGRAPHER gave it to them.

Of course, I am not saying, "don't give credit' to who owns the photo...I was only commenting that giving credit is not a huge deal as 99.9% there is no copyright on it anyway.

[Pilot]

All right- thank you

[Kutscha]

Why the '70 on the nose.

[Jim P.]

Actually, that Fw looks more like an ex-St.St./JG 51 machine, possibly passed on to a training unit by war's end.

[Pilot]

Any document about this? JaPo is from Czech republic and maybe they have something and have used in books?

[cproyston]

Originally Posted by Jim P.

Actually, that Fw looks more like an ex-St.St./JG 51 machine, possibly passed on to a training unit by war's end.

Jim and Kutscha,

This aircraft is definitely from Stab./SG10 - it has all the tactical markings associated with it being an aircraft of a ground attack unit from Luftflotte 4 - 50cm yellow cowl band and yellow rudder.

It's markings match the other 5 identified Stab./SG10 aircraft and Budweiss was the last operating base of Stab. and III./SG10 - Actually by rights, they'd been incorporated into Luftflottenkommando 6 by the war's end, so should've deleted the yellow ID markings (but I suspect they didn't have the time or inclination to bother).

Only II./JG51 were operating under Luftflotte 4 at this time (and actually they'd been disbanded, along with St./JG76, in April and merged into II./JG52) and they didn't operated the Fw 190.

Originally Posted by Kutscha

Why the '70 on the nose.

My own personal view is that the engine was a replacement taken from an Ung.SG (Hungarian Schlachtgruppe) aircraft - whose aircraft carried full luftwaffe markings (German balken and hakenkrauze (not Hungarian), plus Luftflotte 4 ID markings) with the aircraft's number marked in this way - this is confirmed on other aircraft of Ung.SG. in the same time frame.

Cheers,
Chris

[cproyston]

Originally Posted by Pilot

Any document about this? JaPo is from Czech republic and maybe they have something and have used in books?

The document LflKdo 6 Führungsabteilung I Nr. 3175/45 3.5.45 has the Stab./SG10 located at České Budějovice (Budweiss), I believe (This is from memory, so I'll have to check when I get home, but I'm fairly certain)

[Jim P.]

I'm curious as to what the markings of the other 5 machines might be and the source of this information. Guess I'll have to check out 'LW/Czech territory' again - been some time since I've looked through that. Note I said ex-JG 51, so the Lfl. wouldn't really matter as aircraft were shuffled from unit to unit.

[Pilot]

All right- here you are my attempt to reconstruct scheme.



Can I add another image for questions?

[cproyston]

Originally Posted by Jim P.

I'm curious as to what the markings of the other 5 machines might be and the source of this information. Guess I'll have to check out 'LW/Czech territory' again - been some time since I've looked through that. Note I said ex-JG 51, so the Lfl. wouldn't really matter as aircraft were shuffled from unit to unit.

The other 5 aircraft are all similarly marked, i.e. with the yellow cowl and rudder. The individual aircraft are numbered from 1-+- to 6-+- and were all abandoned in the same area of the Budweiss airfield.

Two of them had survived in the Stab. Gruppe for some 9 months as proven by the overpainted V's under their port wings (the previous Lfl.4 tactical marking, introduced after the capitulation of Romania).

The style of numeral, outline and their size match other known SG10 aircraft.

JG51 hadn't operated the Fw 190 (except IV. Gruppe with the D-9) since 1943, so this alone must rule them out.

No training or erganzungs units were in Lfl.4, so wouldn't need to or wouldn't have bothered wearing a front-line tactical marking. There's no evidence for SG, or other such Lfl.4 marked, aircraft being transferred to such a unit either (remembering two of these aircraft were 9 months old).

This, beyond reasonable doubt, would have them as six aircraft in the Stab. Gruppe of a front-line Luftflotte 4 unit.

Some sources quote these as Stab.II./SG10, but their aircraft were differently marked (Green <<+-, <o+-) and were surrendered (and well documented as such) at Neubiberg.

The only other unit operating Fw 190Fs in Luftflotte 4 was SG2, but their Stab. didn't operate six of the type (plus the fact that they and their Ju 87s are well documented thanks to their association with Rudel) and they were sub-ordinated to Lfl. 6 by the time of the 7th March order (50cm yellow cowl band and yellow rudder).

The paper trail, including the document I mention above, details the movements of Stab. and III./SG10 to Budweiss some 5 days before the war's end and primary post-war documentation has Budweiss as their final operating base.

As for sources, other than the limited primary documentation, it's mostly circumstantial, but there's enough, in my opinion, to assign this unit beyond doubt.

Cheers,
Chris