Americans in the RAF in 1940

[John Vasco]

Please take this thread seriously. What I post is not a wind-up, and if you want proof, I will post a link to the thread on the other forum on which it has surfaced.

On another forum, an American has asserted that there were 10,000 Americans in the RAF in 1940. He refuses to accept that he is possibly incorrect, and says they then joined the US Air Force in 1941.

Can someone please prove or disprove this person's claim?

[Alex Smart]

Hello John,

And most of them were I expect from either 2nd generation German or Italian decent?

I remember reading this somewhere - please supply the link, thank you.

Alex

Gentlemen,

The number quoted above relates to the RCAF. A large number of Americans crossed into Canada and enlisted in the RCAF. Not everyone became flight crews. Besides pilots and navigators, air gunners, radio operators, etc. there were others who became aero engine mechanics, airframe fitters, radio repair men, and others that occupied every conceivable trade available in the RCAF. Don't forget there were many Americans in the Canadian Army and Navy.

When the USA entered the war, a special US committee traveled across Canada visiting every RCAF Station to "recruit" or "conscript" Americans into the USAAF. Many Yanks applied for transfer, but the USAAF selected only those having training (pilots and navigators) or trades considered of high value. A very large number of American applicants were rejected and remained in the RCAF, whereas others, who refused to transfer, were stripped of their US citizenship.

I met one veteran in Winnipeg: born in Pennsylvania, he enlisted in the RCAF, stationed with 3 Squardon RAF; he shot down one Me109 and 14 V-1s flying Tempests. When he refused transfer to the USAAF, his US citizenship was revoked, and he remained a Canadian--the late George 'Lefty' Whitman.

I assisted a Canadian researcher with obtaining official US government files relating to this special US committee. I copied and sent him documents listing several thousand Americans in the RCAF, detailing names, rank, and serial numbers. The majority of these are ground-crew members who were rejected by the Americans for transfer to the USAAF.

The Canadian researcher concentrated on pilots and navigators, and documented some of their recollections in a series of books titled, "Immigrants of War" by Walter Fydenchuk. The current volume (No. 5) may be purchased from the Pima County Air Museum in Arizona.

Norman Malayney

[John Vasco]

Alex, Norman,

Thanks for your replies. I am talking 1940 and the Battle of Britain period. Is the figure of 10,000 correct for the RAF (not the RCAF)?

[Bill Walker]

The number is probably believable, if you don't distinguish between RAF and RCAF. The RAF and RCAF were, in many ways, closely connected at the time. Anyone signing up in the RCAF stood a very good chance of serving with an RAF unit, especially early in the war.

Google "Clayton Knight Committee" for more information. This was the officially sanctioned organization that recruited skilled Americans in America for both the RAF and RCAF, with under-the-table approval by the US, Canadian and UK governments. This organization was started before Canada entered the war in September 1939, to handle the huge numbers of Americans looking to join the RCAF or RAF even then. They had signed up over 8,000 by Pearl Harbour, mostly with prior aviation experience or training of some sort. To this number, add many more that crossed into Canada or the UK on their own and signed up there. Most of these had no prior aviation experience, and quite a few were rejects from the Clayton Knight operation. The Clayton Knight people usually supplied rejects with detailed information on how and where to enter Canada, and who to apply to once you got there.

[John Vasco]

I'll make myself a little clearer.

In the RAF in 1940. In an operational status as either flying crew or ground crew, or pen pushers, whatever. That's all I'm trying to bottom out.

Not the RCAF at all. Forget the RCAF.

[Bill Walker]

Up to 25% of the "flying crew or ground crew, or pen pushers or whatever" in the RAF at any time during the War were RCAF, or "Canadians" wearing RAF uniforms. Many of the Yanks in both the RAF and RCAF prior to Pearl Harbour would be listed as "Canadians", since that is where they signed up. Because of paperwork practices like this, it may not be possible to ever confirm or deny your number.

Bottom line: your total of 10,000 Americans is fairly believable, based on the few hard facts I am aware of. It is very believable if you include RCAF members serving with the RAF.

[John Vasco]

People: I'm asking about the year 1940 ALONE. Not the later war years. I thought I had made that perfectly clear...

[Bill Walker]

No need to shout John. I thought you would be able to put this information into historical perspective. I will try to help you with this. I will use short sentences as well.

The Americans serving with the RAF in 1940 would show up in the records under various headings. American in the RAF, Canadian in the RAF, American in the RCAF, and Canadian in the RCAF. Unless we track the true birth place of everyone serving in the RAF in 1940 (not just the birth place on their records), we will not get an accurate number. I don't know if anybody has done this. That leaves us with inference, from the data we have.

The Clayton Knight Committee began recruiting Americans in spring 1939. At that time the American forces were not recruiting in large numbers. This meant Clayton Knight got huge recruitments in 1939 and early 1940. As the American military began to ramp up, Clayton Knight recruitment would have dropped off. This means most of the 8,000+ plus Americans they recruited by late 1941 to work in or for the RAF probably came early on, in 1939 and early 1940.

Clayton Knight got the cream of the crop. Experienced pilots, mechanics, and others. We know that large numbers of other Americans joined the RCAF and the RAF in the same period - 1939 and early 1940. We know from Norman's data, and from other on-line sources, that the total number of Americans that joined the RCAF or RAF was well over 10,000. This matches the inference from the Clayton Knight data. Most of these 10,000+ would have joined up early, in 1939 or 1940. After that, an eager American could enter the US military directly.

This all means that the number of Americans serving in or for the RAF in 1940 could have been around 10,000. We may never know exactly. Records weren't kept that will answer this.

I thought I said all that earlier.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Bill,
But all these men or women would not be in an operational status as flying crew, ground crew etc etc in the UK during the BoB or before. They would surely still be in Canada undergoing training and such. Only a very few that had for one reason or other joined the RAF from before 1939/40 would be in that situation ?
And
From "American Eagles" by Tony Holmes.
"To enlist in a forign countries military was illegal from 1939. It was also unlawful to use a US passport to secure passage to a foreign country for the purposes of enlistment."
Maybe this is why at the later time (mentioned in an earlier post) some were stripped of their US citizenship and others were not due to the time they enlisted.

John, how about a link ?

All for now
Alex