Why did 10./JG 2 bomb a school in Catford?

[tcolvin]

But please, Austin, don't conclude that the Combat Report that you quote is consistent with all of the information available from the German - let alone the British - side.

Schumann, according to Brian, claimed he targetted and hit a school, and not a block of flats;
"Schumann is reported to have made the speech over Paris radio the next day and its content was taken to mean that the school was bombed deliberately as a school."

Einzelmeldung Nummer 1 (Combat Report) makes no mention of a school either targetted or hit, but rather blocks of flats, houses and buildings.
But we know Sandhurst Road School was hit, and we know Schumann went on the radio to advertise the fact.
Schumann was following orders when he made his radio report, which was certainly scripted.
Why did he do it?
Most likely Schumann was telling the German 'agent' in London that the GAF had acted on his information.
Indeed the 'agent', ie JC Masterman, probably asked for such a statement to be made on Paris radio.
Whatever the truth, the radio report presents a big problem to your hypothesis that "this was a straightforward random Jabo terror raid".

JC Masterman's XX file would allow us to know the truth of this strange incident.
Our hypothesis is that this file is among the dozen that were redacted.

Tony

[Bombphoon]

Oh no, you're off about JC Masterman again...

"Most likely Schumann was telling the German 'agent' in London that the GAF had acted on his information.
Indeed the 'agent', ie JC Masterman, probably asked for such a statement to be made on Paris radio".

What on earth makes you think he has got anything to do with this incident, let alone any working proof/suggestion for the above statement??

As the famous Captain would say Tony, "I think you're getting into the realms of fantasy there..."

[Don Pearson]

Been following closely...

The question I have, where is the proof that Schumann made such comments? Is there documentation that his words were broadcast from Paris?

Otherwise, interesting thread,

Don

[tcolvin]

Well, Austin, what's your take on Schumann's radio statement?
We're talking 1943, remember, not 2009 with Terry Wogan and Rush Limbaugh.
Only official government information services got air-time.

Don; Brian is the source for Schumann's radio statement.
His information was new to me.

Tony

[Bombphoon]

Originally Posted by tcolvin

Schumann, according to Brian, claimed he targetted and hit a school, and not a block of flats;
"Schumann is reported to have made the speech over Paris radio the next day and its content was taken to mean that the school was bombed deliberately as a school."

Tony

I'm afraid that's not correct Tony.

The pilot never even mentioned the word 'school' in his radio interview. He stated that they hit all the targets which they had intended to, and as After the Battle: The Blitz: Then & Now Vol. III points out, it was immediately taken by the British as meaning that the pilot had intended to bomb the school. Even the nazis realised there was zero propaganda value in boasting that they deliberately targeted and bombed schools! As per usual/standard Luftwaffe press releases, the report stated important industrial targets were hit.

As for reliable sources, I'm sure you'll agree that whilst not the full story, Einzelmeldung Nummer 1 (not made for public consumption) is a lot more detailed and reliable than the pre-scripted Nazi propaganda radio broadcast made for public consumption/Nazi PR.

Austin

[tcolvin]

I stand corrected, and I misunderstood Brian's quotation.

The bottom line is you're arguing that Einzelmeldung Nummer 1 should be accepted at face value, and Chris Goss supports you, while I'm not so sure.

Tony

[Brian Bines]

The point I was trying to make was that the Luftwaffe bombed random targets of the pilots own choice as instructed. The recent Daily Mail article seem to suggest that the aim of the raid was to hit 6 schools where Aircraft Design teams had worked. As regards Schumanns broadcast this was reported in British newspapers at the time referring to Capt. Schumann leader of the raid, it was his reported statement that they had hit the targets they wanted to that was taken in this country to mean that the school was attacked deliberately as a raid objective. I originally came across this from looking at wartime newspapers at the UK Newspaper library, unfortunately I only took notes and did not keep copies. Looking through what I currently have I quote from ''Red Alert S/E London 1939-1945 '' by Lewis Blake a booklet published in 1982 - '' Feelings ran high further inflamed by the boast of Captain Schumann leader of the raid in a broadcast from Paris - that the bombs had landed where we wanted them to - Sir Assheton Pownall East Lewishams MP - wanted the enemy leader listed as a war criminal - He told the Daily Mail Something ought to be done to fix in the public memory the identity of this Captain Schumann'' ( this is is also repeated in vol.3 of the Blitz Then and Now). I had only taken a brief note from the Newspaper library about the local MP wanting Schumann charged for war crimes.
What I had tried to convey in previous posts was from what I understood the school was not a designated target, the individual pilot chose it on the raid. Whether he deliberately attacked it knowing it was a school will probaly never be known.
Major Heinz Schumann (born 29-11-1914 Leipzig) Kom. SKG10 killed in crash of Fw190G-3 on 8-11-1943 at Arlons.

[Bombphoon]

Tony - re-read my previous post: I never said that the combat report should be taken at face value ("whilst not the full story, Einzelmeldung Nummer 1 (not made for public consumption) is a lot more detailed and reliable than the pre-scripted Nazi propaganda radio broadcast made for public consumption/Nazi PR." It contains details such as numbers and types of ordnance dropped, times, no's of a/c etc. We all know that combat reports are not infallible: due to the heat of the moment/memory etc pilots often misremember facts, exaggerate or miss details. Nonetheless they are a far more reliable source than Nazi radio propaganda.

I completely agree with Brian and those are the points I have been trying to make. They are based on known, related, workable facts. So far, there has not been a single piece of evidence to link the raid to 'Masterman', 'aircraft design plans', '6 other schools targeted'. As such, these ideas are based on nothing more than hearsay, speculation and rumour.

From the overwhelming plausible information available, the Sandhurst Road School incident, whilst incredibly tragic, was a straightforward Terror Attack, which according to the combat report, achived precisely its aim: heavy casualties amongst 'live targets'. As Brian says, whether the pilot knew he was targeting a school or 'multi-storey building/block of flats' or 'industrial target' will probably never be known.

Austin

[Tony Jones]

Hi

Written records of wartime German radio broadcasts are held at Duxford

Tony

[tcolvin]

On further reflection I agree it's unlikely the Catford School was bombed due to XX. Probably it was the revenge (Vergeltung) or Terror attack as argued by Austin, Brian and Chris.

The change of mind is due to the following reasons.

1.The London barrage was hauled down on January 20, 1943 'for essential maintenance' (according to a statement in the HofC). According to Eric Brady, this turned out years later to have been a cover story for calibration of new gun laying radar that required clear sky from London to the coast. The GAF could not have known about this in advance, but took advantage of the operational freedom it gave them to bomb the school from 80 m.

2.The full flowering of the fashion for Jabo occurred in early 1943. A skit by Monty Python, or the Goons (I can't remember), appears to have become actual GAF strategy. The skit had a pilot officer being ordered by a Wingco to fly to Berlin at tree-top height, to bomb the Chancery and to return to base, “because we need a useless gesture at this stage of the war”. Fighter aircraft were first ordered to perform Close Air Support in Poland in the 'exceptional circumstances' foreseen in the Air Manual. Kesselring preempted von Bock's attempt to gain operational control over the LW by ordering Bf109s and Bf110s to support the Heer on the Tucheler Heath and at the Bzura with mg and cannon fire performing Tiefangriff. The next development was Goering's face-saving order that fighters fitted with bomb-racks be used to replace day bombers over England. Finally there occurred the strange case of Frank Liesendahl, who having developed a taste for shooting Polish soldiers on the Bzura and British troops at Dunkirk, and having mulled it over for some time in hospital, persuaded first himself and then Oesau to let him shoot up British troops or, in their absence, British shipping. His reward for sinking a 3,000-ton ship was the formation of 10 (Jabo)./JG 2 which together with 10./JG26 under Erwin Busch became a dumping ground for the undisciplined and insubordinate. The analysis by Chris Goss of the tip-and-run campaign from March 1942 to June 1943, which included the Catford bombing, showed that 68 out of 118 Jabos were lost in achieving what Galland had said in 1940 “had little of any military value”. Jabo attacks did, however, fulfill the psychological need for revenge against Bomber Command's campaign to burn out 100 German cities. The Jabo was therefore the V0, to be replaced by the V1 and V2. This comes across clearly in Eric Brady's book, “Class War”. Eric was severely wounded by the V0, but escaped narrowly from both V1 and V2, so in the end he could say to Hitler's shade, “Yah – missed me!”.

3.In discussion this evening with a distinguished military historian, it was said that in Britain during the war it was commonplace to believe that schools were targeted, to such an extent that a German historian once asked why British people believed Hitler deliberately attacked their education. It seems likely, therefore, that Eric Brady's hearsay evidence that six schools were attacked on January 20, 1943 was part of this urban myth.

Tony