German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

[Johannes]

Gentlemen

Regarding the Hartmann/Obleser statement, it does is not true Obleser did not question Hartmann's claims, probably never flew together either.
There was almost a mutiny with the rest of Hartmann's staffel as they seem not to have been happy with him, though this could be his avoidance of anything other than high altitude combat. It does seem that Hartmann was ambicious and had worked out that the best way to be the best is to survive the longest, so cut out all the risks. However that doesn't mean is was making fraudulant claims, though most frauds followed a set pattern of huge daily claims, Hartmann certainly falls into this catogory! But you must have others to help you, nowotny had his schwarm, Rudorffer had Tangermann, also it would seem to be the leaders of the largest total i.e Wick to 50 Gollob to 150, Graf to 200, Nowotny to 250, so why not Hartmann? With Gollob he was making huge daily claims in 1942, yet on a day he flew with Viktor Petermann from another unit he had add only one, so perhaps this suggests opportunity. Also you must look at whole Geschwader JG5 in the East and JG2 in the West seem to have been the worst for wholesale overclaiming, though even then some amongst these remained honest. Hans-Joachim Marseille's claims seem at first glance fraudulent, but any of his that didn't actually come down(and most did) he thought they had come down, so he wasn't dis-honest only mistakes. Egon Mayer had a problem with Josef Wurmheller, who was a massive overclaimer, and not only looked like Marseille, but had the same huge ego, one turmed out to be a fraud, one honest, I nthink that Egon Mayer suspected Wurmheller of fraud! As Hartmann seemed unpopular perhaps he also was a fraud, personally I suspect that he was, but I do not actually know, I suspect that Rall, Barkhorn, Hrabak, Gratz, Trenkel and Obleser were honest. In the West the Luftwaffe authorities counted up the wreck sites, in the East the front was fluid, most claims were behind enemy lines, JG5's front was stable, but like JG2 most of there claims were over the sea. Also in the West the night fighters were more accurate, I don't think we can say they were more honest, I would say that with there cannons they more often than not set the enemy on fire, therefore are less likely to think they have shot one down when they havn't. Kurt Welter was a notorious fraudster, but most of these were when he was flying the single-seater Me262. The single engined night-fighters had the greatest difficulty in confirmations as they flew alone, had no crew members as witnesses, and other flew over cities where the flak could also have been responsible!
One final observation.....fraudsters seem to have there big days at notable points in there totals i.e around the 100, 150, 200 e.t.c mark!
Sad thing is that they kept the honest guys away from more deserving decorations!

Regards

Johannes