German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

[Ruy Horta]

I see a lot of speculation, but hardly any foundation.

So certain that in response to defeat A, propaganda victory B was executed.

The simple fact that Nazi Germany thrived on propaganda means that all these claims must be seen in that light.

I disagree.

That doesn't mean that there is an element of wanting to create heroes, but there is a difference of intent. To what extend this wishful thinking differed from the other combattants, or was worse than the other combattants is arguable. Only the high claim numbers differ and that must be seen within a proper context.

There is a big difference between numbers fed to the public and those that are official. The Volkische Beobachter would have been the tool of propaganda, but not the regular claim's system.

Today we say that Marseille's claims are legit, but not long ago people like Johnny Johnson called it Nazi Propaganda. Marseille is not alone with having plus 100 claims that seem to be reasonably accurate.

In the east those figures seem to fall apart, but do we have access to all the Soviet figures?

We easily dismiss German claims, but also dismiss that not little part of the fighting was witnessed by friendly ground forces, since the Luftwaffe was playing fire fighter for most of the time in direct support of the troops.

So if the claim for type A isn't correct, we shouldn't dismiss that type D might have been shot up. That perhaps the damage to type D was reported a day later or whatever.

I find the claim that some of the Jagdwaffe claims to be directly related to some defeat to be pretty far fetched.